[bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or Spaces
- From: "Lisa Belville" <lisab12@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:05:31 -0500
Hi, Lisa.
I feel your pain. <smiles>
I didn't realize that the formatting was eradicated to the extent it is
until reading this thread.
I understand where you're coming from regarding poetry and how spaces and
indents are used to enhance the meaning. I can remember being very
disappointed a few years ago when I tried using Openbook to scan some
poetry, only to find it destroyed the visual representation of the poem.
I agree that this is a shame, but I can understand there are technical
limits Bookshare is laboring under. I think having access to the text of a
poem is still very useful, and isn't something that should be discounted.
Unless a publisher or an author objects to their work being rearranged, I
think we should count ourselves lucky that we have access to material that
until recently was out of our grasp.
I'm still very happy to have Bookshare as a resource and I'm still
enthusiastic about volunteering. Like you said, not having to agonize over
proper indentation and spacing does make our job easier. <smiles>
As someone who primarily reads things through speech, I can honestly say
that I can still get the meanings of poems and stories, sometimes my
interpretation is vastly different than what the "Official" interpretation
is, but that's the joy of poetry, I think. Still, having that visual or
tactile indication of an indent is helpful and necessary for someone trying
to cite a source for research purposes. Hopefully this issue will be added
to the ever growing list of needed improvements.
Just my Validator's fifty cents worth. <smiles>
Lisa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:57 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or Spaces
Dear Kelly,
Thanks for the explanation.
Does this mean when books are produced from Bookshare, there's no such thing
as an indent at all? So this book with 4 separate margins to indicate quotes
from narrative from song lyrics by arranging words flush, paragraph indent,
deep quote indent and one between paragraph and quote used for lines of
quotes over 1 line long will appear with no indents at all?
I'm surprised we're worrying about the fractional inches of difference
between m dash and double dash etc, when the entire spatial formatting of
all of the books is wiped out.
You know I love Bookshare and am always willing to work within the system,
but all of this talk about precisely duplicating the book now sounds like
overkill. I mean, at least as far as margins, indents for paragraphs,
indented poetry and quotes or reproduced correspondence, anything the
publisher sets off spatially is erased?
When I taught elementary to both blind and sighted kids, this spacing often
helped kids find their place on a page, and alerted them to the insertion of
material other than the narrative. I'm just shocked that I'm realizing this
for the first time after 13 months of trying to insure that a book's format
was replicated.
It isn't a criticism, but a huge alteration in my perception of my
responsibility. It will make validating easier, ignoring spacing and
margins, but it makes me realize bookshare books come out sort of literally
flattened.
It does go to prove I can barely see my computer screen. I've listened to
several books on Daisy assuming the print was scrolling in an arrangement
close to that of the print book. It never occurred to me that everything was
left justified. I didn't go character by character to hear where things were
placed. On my braille note, I also gave up on understanding the format and
read only for content. Lack of format is the reason I haven't read poetry on
my BN. For most sighted poetry writers, placement of their words is a part
of the art, a compliment to the words.
As you suggest, I'll go on as I am. It's still scary to change things with
only 30 pages to go.
From now on, everything is left justified with only hard breaks to indicate
paragraphs, not even a blank line between them. Do I understand it now?
From the perspective of a person who has read braille from first grade and
only read print because it was the only way to read nearly 100 percent of
the reading material in the world I can say cramming print together without
offsetting anything with spaces, makes it visually more difficult to read.
This isn't an issue with me because I need bookshare for access to audio and
braille books. Realistically, I understand very well that when a system
tries to cater to every need, the end result is that far fewer people are
served in the long run.
Back to work I go, to an easier job and always loving bookshare.
Always with love,
Lissi
----- Original Message -----
From: Kellie Hartmann
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:54 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or Spaces
Hi Lissi and Paula,
I had to think about the spacing issue to get it straight in my head
before answering these. Lissi, I absolutely hate to tell you this after all
the work you've gone to on this validation. What happens is that tabs are
completely eaten and not replaced with even a space, and strings of spaces
are all reduced to one space. I don't know why this should be, but we had
done some testing in the past and that was what we'd figured out. Lissi, I
wouldn't go back and take the spaces out of your current project. Hopefully
all the care you've taken on the dashes will suffice to let readers know
what's going on.
Kellie
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