[bksvol-discuss] OT: Alaska
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:11:16 -0700 (PDT)
Thank you, Rui. I enjoyed the trip, and it cooled me
off just reading about it. now I'll have to see if
Jeremiah Johnson is showing on tv tonight.
And I just read an article about Barrow, Alaska. I
gather it's even farther north than you went. I did
not know that it was a listening/watching post during
The War ( when you're my age there is only one
war--I'm too young for WWI).
Have you read Into the Wild, by John Krakauer? It's
not on bookshare, although Into Thin Air and Under the
Banner of Heaven are. Into the WIld was Krakauer's
first book, I think. It is a real story, like Into
Thin Air, about a young man who wanted to go camp in
the Alaskan Wilderness and, after hitchhiking and
traveling across the country eventually got there.
Unfortunately, like many young people, he thought he
knew everything and didn't listen to people who knew
more. I found it a fascinating can't-put-down book
(unlike, in my opinion, Under the banner of Heaven)
and IMO it should be on bookshare. If someone scans it
and no one else wants to validate it, I'd be happy to,
but any of you who like to read true adventure stories
or camping stories I think will like it.
Cindy
-- Rui <goldWave@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Good morning:
>
> I have brought out the dead horse so we can finish
> beating on it.
> Later on today I will have a fat lady singing on my
> website.
> As i'm sticking a fork in the stripper discussion, I
> hope that bookshare has
> taken notice (and i believe they have)
>
> p.s. speaking of deadhorse.
>
> Deadhorse, Alaska, 99734. It's hard to imagine when
> you arrive in Deadhorse
> in the winter, but a few dozen people actually live
> in this town that lies
> on the Arctic
> Ocean, at the terminus of the remote gravel track
> euphemistically called the
> Dalton Highway. The rest -- thousands at a time --
> work two weeks on and two
> weeks off supporting the oil field developments
> known as Prudhoe Bay.
>
>
> The Coldfoot complex, the northernmost truck stop in
> the United States, has
> facilities for truckers and tourists alike, with a
> homey restaurant, post
> office,
> a small gift shop that sells gold-nugget jewelry,
> and general store called
> "7-Eleven Below". Arctic Acres Inn provides basic
> lodging, with three small
> motels that have a total of 200 beds along with an
> RV park with hookups,
> picnic tables, a dump station, shower and a laundry
> facility. (This is a
> great
> summer description-in the winter, it's a
> snow-encrusted camp with icicles
> that look like they wouldn't melt until August.)
> While there, we downed some
> homey food, filled our fuel tanks with gas, and came
> to a consensus that
> "Cold foot" was aptly named, but because of our
> amply-heated Volvo V70s, we
> continued
> our pilgrimage toward the town with a name even more
> ominous-"Dead horse"!
>
> Turning north from Coldfoot, a haunting message was
> posted along the
> roadway: The next available services are 244 miles
> to the north, it read.
> Although
> the region is basically uninhabited, Wiseman is 15
> miles up the road from
> Coldfoot, where the 2000 census counted 21 people.
> Undaunted, we drove up
> Chandalar
> Shelf and through Atigun Pass, where the highway
> crosses the Continental
> Divide. The pass had been closed for twelve hours
> due to an avalanche, a
> frequent
> occurrence in the winter, so we held our breath and
> glided the XC70 over its
> winding track with ease, struck by the immensity of
> this white land and its
> beauty.
> Traveling down over the rugged peaks of the Brooks
> Range, out onto the
> treeless plains of the North Slope, we finally drove
> into Deadhorse /
> Prudhoe Bay,
> and felt like we were at the top of the world. In
> the good weather, there
> can be an abundance of wildlife: moose, caribou,
> Dall sheep, bear, swans,
> geese,
> ducks, other waterfowl and eagles, along with
> snowshoe hares, Arctic ground
> squirrels, and even occasionally Musk Ox. We were
> not in good weather,
> however,
> arriving in a "white out" with a temperature of 51
> below zero, and we saw
> only one Ptarmigan, the Alaskan state bird, and a
> couple of caribou.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sharon Jackson" <dolly1025@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:08 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those
> contrarians?
>
>
> > It is very frustrating not having this vital
> information especially for
> > referencing. I have just completed my masters
> degree and know all too
> > well how much hassel it can be to find page
> numbers and other vital
> > information. The textbooks and reference material
> need this information.
> >
> > Sharon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paula and James Muysenberg"
> <outofsightlife@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 11:28 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those
> contrarians?
> >
> >
> >> Hi, Scott,
> >>
> >> I can understand that the headings could get
> in the way of someone
> >> reading purely for pleasure. I'm concerned,
> though, about students and
> >> researchers, for whom page numbers can be
> crucial. Right now, the
> >> stripper
> >> removes those, and they are only available if you
> use the DAISY format.
> >> Braille users usually have no way of determining
> the corresponding print
> >> page, if they need to follow along in class or
> site a reference in a
> >> paper.
> >> I'm not currently a student, but if I were, it
> would be frustrating to
> >> have
> >> access to the book, but not the page numbers--and
> in some cases, not even
> >> the chapter titles.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Paula
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 5:58 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those
> contrarians?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Let me speak first as a reader of Bookshare
> books. I mostly read
> >>> fiction,
> >>> with the occasional pop culture book thrown in
> for variety. I read
> >>> almost
> >>> all these books in Braille. I don't want to see
> repeated text such as
> >>> page
> >>> numbers, author/title info, etc. If people want
> to be able to see that
> >> info,
> >>> there should be an option to include or exclude
> this from your book.
> >>> Chapters and other major headings should be
> included of course, and I
> >>> believe that problem will be addressed.
> >>>
> >>> As a validator, I can't think of a good enough
> reason at this point to
> >> stop
> >>> submitting books and validating them. That
> includes the stripper issue.
> >>> If
> >>> we stop submitting or validating works, we're
> hurting a much larger
> >>> group
> >> of
> >>> people than ourselves. The ultimate purpose of
> Bookshare is to give
> >>> access
> >>> to books. There are still many books rated fair
> on the website, and in
> >>> the
> >>> past I'm sure there were a much higher
> percentage of "fair" books
> >> submitted
> >>> to the site, but we wouldn't have wanted those
> books held back from
> >>> being
> >>> available just because they were poorly scanned.
> I don't want people
> >>> deprived of books just because of a missing
> chapter heading, or because
> >>> there aren't page numbers included.
> >>>
> >>> Let's take things slow and easy folks.
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Rui" <goldWave@xxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:28 PM
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Where are those
> contrarians?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Hello:
> >>> >
> >>> > I would like to here from people who disagree
> with me.
> >>> > Let me know why you think the current setup
> makes sense.
> >>> >
> >>> > I do not mean for people to play devil's
> advocate with this.
> >>> > I'm asking if anyone seriously disagrees with
> the centiments expressed
> >>> > over the last 30 hours.
> >>> >
> >>> > (There is a method to my madness)
> >>> >
> >>> > -- Rui (who is probably liked at Benetech
> right now as much as the
> >> plague)
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
> >>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:26 PM
> >>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
> colatteral damage
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Dear Charlyn and Bookshare community,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I think a petition is an excellent idea.
> Charlyn, would you like to
> >> put
> >>> >> it
> >>> >> together? Rui, would you put it on the
> Bookshare Scans site?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I also think we should select a day to make
> phone calls and send
> >>> >> emails
> >>> >> to
> >>> >> the Bookshare staff calling on them to turn
> off the stripper. How
> >> about
> >>> >> Thursday, July 28, one week after this most
> recent stripper
> >>> >> discussion
> >>> >> began.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> We need to take in the fact that, as
> Bookshare volunteers and users,
> >>> >> we
> >>> >> must
> >>> >> have direct say on policy issues. Right now
> this list is virtually
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> only
> >>> >> vehicle we have for reaching the staff, and
> it is clearly
> >>> >> ineffective.
> >>> >> The
> >>> >> stripper issue highlights a need for a more
> formalized means of
> >>> >> communication. Maybe we should develop an
> advisory committee which
> >>> >> can
> >>> >> bring concerns to the staff and have a real
> voice in policymaking.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> As blind people, most of us have grown up
> with the sense that we're
> >> lucky
> >>> >> to
> >>> >> get whatever reading matter is offered to us.
> We had better be
> >>> >> appreciative
> >>> >> and not complain. On the title page of every
> book from the National
> >>> >> Library
> >>> >> Service we read that the book has been
> produced for the blind and
> >>> >> physically
> >>> >> handicapped "with the kind permission of the
> publisher." That line
> >> about
> >>> >> "the kind permission" says so much! Do
> sighted people need anyone's
> >> kind
> >>> >> permission in order to read? I AM in fact
> extraordinarily grateful
> >>> >> to
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> volunteers and others who have spent
> countless hours putting books
> >>> >> into
> >>> >> Braille and recorded formats for us, and to
> those who have worked to
> >>> >> change
> >>> >> copyright laws and make our special-format
> books possible! Most of
> >>> >> us
> >>> >> would
> >>> >> not be literate, educated, contributing
> members of society without
> >> their
> >>> >> help! But I think that our lifelong
> dependence upon others to
> >>> >> provide
> >> us
> >>> >> with books, and the constant feeling that we
> must be grateful and
> >>> >> that
> >> we
> >>> >> can't expect too much, do take a toll.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Bookshare is different. Bookshare is a
> program which is not only FOR
> >> us,
> >>> >> but BY us. We, the volunteers, determine
> what books go into the
> >>> >> collection,
> >>> >> and we ourselves make them available. We are
> not "only volunteers"
> >>> >> who
> >>> >> have
> >>> >> no right to determine policy. We are the
> backbone of the program - a
> >>> >> program which is created to meet our needs
> and those of other blind
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> print-disabled people. The Bookshare staff
> are not users of
> >>> >> Bookshare
> >>> >> materials. They do not live with the
> inaccessibility of print; they
> >>> >> don't
> >>> >> experience our issues from the inside. It is
> absolutely essential
> >>> >> that
> >>> >> they
> >>> >> listen to what we have to say.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Bookshare is an incredible program, and I
> believe in it utterly. It
> >> has
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> potential to narrow the print gap for us as
> no other program ever has
> >>> >> before. But we need to take a stand and
> insist that it be the
> >>> >> quality
> >>> >> program we all deserve.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Debbie
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> >> From: "Charlene" <caota@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 12:11 AM
> >>> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
> colatteral damage
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Maybe we could put together a pteition of
> some sort and put a notice
> >> on
> >>> >>> the volunteer website as well to see if we
> could get enough people
> >>> >>> to
> >>> >>> sign it to send to bookshare requesting them
> to stop using the
> >> program.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Pam Quinn
> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:02 PM
> >>> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
> colatteral damage
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> We take pride in our submissions and I just
> don't think a lot of the
> >>> >>> bookshare staff understands how angry and
> frustrated we are when we
> >> see
> >>> >>> that our submissions have been mangled. And
> for what? I just don't
> >>> >>> get
> >>> >>> it. Why do they insist on holding on to that
> useless program that
> >> nobody
> >>> >>> wants? Seems to me if anything, dropping it
> would mean one less step
> >> and
> >>> >>> less work in putting the books on the site.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I use chapter headings for my breaking
> points in .mp3 files too,
> >>> >>> when
> >>> >>> I'm lucky enough to have them.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> It might not be our decision and they might
> not want to listen to
> >>> >>> us,
> >>> >>> but that would be unfortunate, because the
> volunteers and
> >>> >>> subscribers
> >>> >>> have a major role in determining the future
> of bookshare.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Pam
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Original message:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >I have seriously considered not submitting
> some books I have
> >>> >>> >scanned
> >>> >>> >just
> >>> >>> >because I thought they would be of little
> use after the stripper
> >>> >>> finished
> >>> >>> >with them. I put a lot of work in to what
> I submit and it is
> >>> >>> >really
> >>> >>> >upsetting to see the final result when my
> original looked so nice,
> >> and
> >>> >>> that
> >>> >>> >is only a volunteer's view. I also am
> upset by the messes that I
> >> come
> >>> >>> >accross when I am reading, even for
> pleasure. I use the chapter
> >>> >>> headings
> >>> >>> >as my MP3 creation breaking points, so if
> they aren't there I have
> >>> >>> >a
> >>> >>> big
> >>> >>> >mess!
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >I don't really like throwing fits, and I
> won't on this list because
> >> it
> >>> >>> >seems to serve little purpose, but the fits
> are completely
> >>> >>> >justified.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >If i submitted a book in DAISY and BRF
> format instead of in RTF
> >>> >>> >would
> >>> >>> >the
> >>> >>> >normal automated processes be skipped?
> That is the only thing I
> >>> >>> >can
> >>> >>> think
> >>> >>> >of to rescue books where the headers,
> headings, and page numbers
> >>> >>> >are
> >>> >>> >invaluable.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >Sarah Van Oosterwijck
> >>> >>> >Assistive Technology Trainer
> http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity
> >>> >>> >----- Original Message -----
> >>> >>> >From: "Deborah Kent Stein"
> <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
> >>> >>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >>> >Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:10 PM
> >>> >>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
> colatteral damage
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Hear, hear! I agree 200%!
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> We have been telling the Bookshare staff
> about our concerns,
> >> politely
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >> but firmly, literally for years. Despite
> all the talk, nothing
> >>> >>> >> has
> >>> >>> >> changed. I am beginning to think we need
> to take stronger action.
> >> We
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >> ARE volunteers.
> >>> >>> >> We do not have to contribute the
> thousands of hours we put into
> >> this
> >>> >>> >> program. And Bookshare cannot survive
> without us. Do we need to
> >> say
> >>> >>> we
> >>> >>> >> will have to stop scanning and validating
> until we know that
> >> someone
> >>> >>> out
> >>> >>> >> there is really listening to us, and
> taking action? It should
> >>> >>> >> not
> >>> >>> have
> >>> >>> >> to
> >>> >>> >> come down to threats and strikes, but
> many of us are at our wit's
> >>> >>> end.
> >>> >>> >> What
> >>> >>> >> is it going to take to turn off the
> stripper and stop mangling
> >>> >>> >> the
> >>> >>> books
> >>> >>> >> we
> >>> >>> >> work so hard to make available?
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Debbie
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> >>> >> From: "Rui" <goldwave@xxxxxxx>
> >>> >>> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:16 AM
> >>> >>> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] stripper and
> colatteral damage
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> Good Afternoon:
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> At the bookshare users meeting at NFB, I
> made it very clear to
> >>> >>> >>> Jim
> >>> >>> >>> (like
> >>> >>> >> he didn't know already) the issues with
> the stripper and why i
> >> think
> >>> >>> >> it should be removed.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> The whole concept of the stripper
> bothers me, not just the fact
> >>> >>> >>> it
> >>> >>> >>> does
> >>> >>> >> more than it's supposed too.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Its very reason for being agrivates me.
> >>> >>> >>> Regular print books have headers, some
> have footers, that is
> >>> >>> >>> part
> >> of
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> a
> >>> >>> >> print book.
> >>> >>> >>> If we want digital copies of print books
> then, take the good
> >>> >>> >>> with
> >>> >>> >>> the
> >>> >>> >>> bad.
> >>> >>> >>> Do not sanitize the book to make it more
> access technology
> >> friendly.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> The
> >>> >>> >> very fact that is accessible already does
> that.
> >>> >>> >>> If i don't want to read the headers, i
> can strip them out myself
> >> or
> >>> >>> >>> use
> >>> >>> >>> my
> >>> >>> >> own automated tool to do so.
> >>> >>> >>> However, If by chance I do want them
> there, I simply do not get
> >>> >>> >>> that
> >>> >>> >> option with Bookshare!!!
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Words do not do justice to how much this
> issue ticks me off.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Bottomline, this process does not serve
> the community that it
> >>> >>> >>> was
> >>> >>> >>> designed
> >>> >>> >> to assist.
> >>> >>> >>> -- Rui
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > From: Mike Pietruk <pietruk@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >>> >>> > Date: 2005/07/21 Thu AM 11:00:39 EDT
> >>> >>> >>> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Pam
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > agreed! It's inconsistent and
> unpredictable. And the
> >>> >>> >>> > problems
> >>> >>> >>> > relative
> >>> >>> >>> > to it have been discussed repeatedly.
> >>> >>> >>> > The Powers-that-be are all too aware
> of the damage the
> >>> >>> >>> > stripper
> >>> >>> has
> >>> >>> >> caused
> >>> >>> >>> > but seem to have shoved it on the back
> burner probably due to
> >> more
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> > pressing issues to deal with. It is a
> shame that it cannot be
> >>> >>> >>> > dealt with; but Marissa, prior to her
> leaving, pretty much
> >>> >>> >>> > outlined where it stands. So I
> wouldn't expect much change
> >>> >>> >>> > regarding the stripper as any change
> would require some sort
> >>> >>> >>> > of
> >>> >>> >>> > policy change plus programmer action.
> Conceptually, the
> >>> >>> >>> > stripper
> >>> >>> >>> > makes sense; practically, it has been
> a
> >>> >>> >> dismal
> >>> >>> >>> > failure breading as much (or perhaps
> even more) than it has
> >>> >>> >>> > repaired. It's not our decision as we
> are volunteers, not
> >>> >>> >>> > decision-makers.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> --
> >>> >>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> >>> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >>> >>> >> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database:
> 267.9.2/52 - Release Date:
> >>> >>> 7/19/2005
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
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