I do the same. I think it helps readers to know that there are no pages of text missing, if they see a numbered blank page. Cindy --- Gerald Hovas <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Rick, > > Sounds like you restated it correctly. > > I don't see any reason to explain that a page is > blank. I once saw a > textbook where the publisher had done the same thing > in print, and I thought > the practice looked rather stupid, especially since > the page was no longer > blank once the note had been added. <Smile> Sighted > people don't have any > trouble recognizing a blank page and realizing that > it was left blank on > purpose, and I personally don't understand why blind > people would need any > help recognizing a blank page and realizing the same > thing either. > > I've been adding the page number and putting a blank > line above and below it > though as insurance that the Stripper won't default > to the wrong page > number, but I've noticed that the Stripper has > trouble recognizing the page > number, probably because it's the only line on the > page. I've considered > just leaving it blank because this causes the double > set of page numbers on > that page, but I'm still hesitating doing that > because the head of > Engineering once mentioned that the Stripper has > trouble occasionally when > the page doesn't have a page number. Sounds like > one of those situations > where there's no good choice. For the moment I'm > erring on the side of > adding the page number to the page since I believe > this is easiest to > correct and would hopefully be fixed at some point > then the collection rerun > through the tools at a later time correcting this > problem. The collection > wouldn't be rerun for something this minor, but that > doesn't mean it won't > be rerun for something else later on, like when > NIMAS is supported or > Bookshare is required to support a newer version of > the DAISY standard. > > Oh, almost forgot to mention that you're correct in > treating the roman > numeral page numbers just like arabic page numbers. > So far I haven't caught > the tools not recognizing them as page numbers. > Guess they got that right. > > HTH > > Gerald > > -----Original Message----- > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Rik James > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:10 PM > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: SAVE Page numbers, > Page Breaks > > Wow, Gerald, thanks for this message, and taking > your time to explain in > such detail. > > I think I'm doing it this way now, but sadly, the > first books I ever > scanned, I was not so well informed. In fact, there > was an email to me one > time, saying they thought I had missing pages > because of problems in the > pagination. I had never paid one iota attention to > pages before that. Now, > I always do, at least to be sure I don't skip or > double up on them. > > The only thing I didn't know was about the need for > a blank line at the end > of each page, which sometimes are already there, but > I will make sure of > that in the future. It makes sense that the stripper > might see that it being > too close to the next page's number. > > If I understand this correctly then, in my earnest > attempt at being clear > and at the expense of being tirelessly repetitive... > (!) > > A Blank line above and below the page number at the > top of the page. > A blaink line above and below the chapter title > below the page number. > And to be sure there is a blank line at the bottom > of each page. > > Now, how about the Roman numeral pages? > Just do those as the other page numbers? That is > what I have been doing. > (Even though my speech does not know about how to > say them!) > > And, how about pages that are blank, but ARE > included in the pagination? > What I have been doing (after my awakening), is > this: > I have been putting a page number on that page, with > a blank line above and > below it. And then under that I have been inserting > the text > [NOTE: PAGE IS BLANK] > > And an additional blank line under that. > > Okay? > When I'm wrong, I'll admit it, unlike so many of our > public figures today! > (smile) > > Our local library is moving! It will go from a > distance from my place of 8 > blocks to 15. Oh well, exercise can't be THAT bad > for you, can it? Since > they have an extended return due date time for > borrowers, I have borrowed a > few extra of some books by some Montana authors I > find missing from > Bookshare's collection (Richard Hugo, Jim Harrison, > Richard Ford), and I was > planning on trying to scan some for Bookshare in the > next few weeks. > > I have 2 book submissions still awating validation, > both books of short > fiction: > > Gallatin Canyon. By Thomas McGuane > Blues and Trouble. By Tom Piazza > > Both should be pretty quick validates, as I took > care in their production in > using the above methodology and uised the spell > checkers before submitting. > > Thanks. > Rik > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Gerald Hovas > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 8:30 AM > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: SAVE Page numbers, Page Breaks > > Barbara, > > The Bookshare tools don't strip page numbers. Some > volunteers incorrectly > came to this conclusion when they couldn't see them > in K-1000. However, > just because they weren't able to see them in K-1000 > doesn't mean that they > were stripped. The problem was due to Bookshare and > KESI storing the page > numbers differently in the NCX file because the > previous DAISY standard > didn't specifically state how to store them. For > proof that they weren't > stripped, all you have to do is look at one of the > BRF books or the HTML > files which can be unpacked with the DAISY book. > > Now, that doesn't mean that page numbers might not > be stripped by a > volunteer who doesn't know what they are doing. If > they use either K-1000 > or OpenBook to strip the headers/footers > automatically, then they'll strip > the page numbers right along with the text since > page numbers are part of > either the header or the footer. Some new > volunteers even think they are > supposed to strip page numbers to make the text flow > more smoothly when > reading with speech. > > Now to answer your question as to how to handle page > numbers at the bottom > of the page so that the Bookshare tools will handle > them properly. > > * Leave a blank line before the page number as > insurance to make sure the > Stripper doesn't get confused about the page number > being the footer. > * Strip any text if it happens to be in the footer > along with spaces and > tabs to make the Stripper's job of recognizing the > page number simple. > There's no harm in doing this because if the > Stripper recognizes the footer, > then it will strip the text anyway. > * Leave a blank line between the page number and the > page break to prevent > the page number from becoming part of the last > paragraph in the HTML file > that can be unpacked with the DAISY book. > > Here's a few more steps to make sure the book turns > out well > > * Since the page numbers aren't part of the header, > then strip the entire > header to prevent any headers from being left in the > book because the > Stripper overlooks them due to their not being > identical to the other > headers. Again, there's no harm in doing this > because if the Stripper > recognizes the header, then it will strip it anyway. > * If there are chapter headings in the book, then > you'll want to create a > header for the Stripper to strip on that page to > prevent the chapter heading > from being stripped. I recommend using the title > because I've seen someone > use the word Header, and the Stripper left it in the > book. This was > probably due to it being added to pages which > shouldn't have a header. > There would have been less confusion on the part of > the reader, though, if > the title had been used, and possibly less on the > tool's part as well. > > Now for the other case where page numbers are part > of the header, since some > of the newer volunteers may be wondering what to do > to prevent problems due > to the tool known as the Stripper > > * Leave a blank line between the page number and the > page break to prevent > the page number from becoming part of the first > paragraph in the HTML file > that can be unpacked with the DAISY book. > * Strip any text, spaces, and tabs which happen to > be in the header to make > the Stripper's job of recognizing the page number > simple. There's no harm > in this since the Stripper will strip them anyway if > it recognizes the > header. > * Do not put anything above the page > number-including dashes, asterisks, or > other symbols-because that will make that line the > header, and page numbers > must be in the header or footer in order for the > tool to process them. BTW, > if page numbers aren't allowed to be processed > because volunteers add that > extra line above the page number thinking they are > preventing the page > number from being stripped, then it will cause two > sets of page numbers in > the BRF and HTML files: the real page numbers which > have now become part of > the main text and the page numbers which the > Stripper uses as a default > because it couldn't find any page numbers, and the > two sets may or may not > agree depending on how the pages in the book are > numbered. > * Leave a blank line after the page number as > insurance to make sure the > Stripper doesn't get confused about the page number > being the header > * If the book has chapter headings, then move the > page number from the > bottom of the page to the top of the page if the > page number is included at > the bottom of the page. If the page with the > chapter heading doesn't > include a page number, then add one above the > chapter heading. Use the same > guidelines as mentioned above for handling the page > number if it were part > of the header. Adding the page number or moving it > to the top of the page > will prevent the Stripper from confusing the chapter > heading with a header > and stripping it. > > Here are a few examples of how pages should look for > those who understand > better from examples. Just as a note, I'm using > [Page Break] to represent a > page break and a vertical ellipsis (three periods > each on a line by itself), > followed by Main Text, and another vertical ellipsis > to represent the main > text on the page since I don't want to copy a page > from a book or make up a > bunch of text, and because I want to keep the > examples short. > > Example of a page with a chapter heading when the > page numbers are normally > at the top of the page > > [Page Break] > > 41 > > CHAPTER THREE > > > > > Main Text > > > > > [Page Break] > > Example of a page with a chapter heading when the > page numbers are always > found at the bottom of the page > > [Page Break] > > The Pelican Brief > > Chapter 7 > > > > > Main Text > > > > > [Page Break] > > Example of a page without a chapter heading when > pages appear at the top of > the page > > [Page Break] > > 80 > > > > > Main Text > > > > > [Page Break] > > Example of a page without a chapter heading when > pages appear at the bottom > of the page > > [Page Break] > > > > > Main Text > > > > > 99 > > [Page Break] > > HTH > > Gerald > > P.S. > > People, > > Yes,I know some of you use other methods to protect > chapter headings, and I > also know that some of the methods volunteers > recommend don't actually work > after all because I've looked into what works and > what doesn't, so everyone > please refrain from explaining how they do it to > prevent confusion. > > Thanks, > > Gerald > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Barbara J Wagreich > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:38 AM > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Cc: Barbara J Wagreich > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Page numbers > > Hi: > > I have a book of poems I wnat to submit. the page > nubmers are at the > bottom of each page. How do I enter the page > nubmers so they won't get > stripped out in the conversion process to daisy and > braille formats? > > Also the back cover page has relevant info. where > do I insert this info? > at the end of th e book? > > Thanks, > Barbara Wagreich > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a list of > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in > the subject line. > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a list of > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in > the subject line. > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a list of > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in > the subject line. > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a list of available commands, put the > word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.