Dear fellow field wanderers
Before the discussions gets too far out of field where we start explaining
one thing we do not understand (the field) with another thing, we also do
not understand (the quantum field, the Akhaisa field, liminal field) what
about the old fashioned idea of standing in awe in front of the big
mystery??? I certainly would never be too certain about Heisenberg's
relationship to constellations. Let me instead elevate the discussion to the
level of a multiple choice question (please choose A, B or C):
In regards to the field (aka the knowing field) as it is experienced during
constellations, which answer closest expresses your opinion?
A: The field reflects an outer reality who's deeper truth - structural, not
literal or historical - shows itself through a constellation
B: The field is a projection of the inner world of the client
C: The field is a projection of the shadow of the facilitator
What answer did you choose?
Congratulations, you were right!
Hans
PS: Heisenberg or not, I am pretty certain you should look closely at the
two questions you did not choose.
-------Original Message-------
From: Alison Rose Levy
Date: 10/24/07 07:00:23
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: AW: [ConstellationTalk] the Field as liminal space
Dear Johannes, Joe, Chris, and Dipa:
As further confirmation to your quote from Laszlo, Johannes, and to your
question, Dipa, I recently attended a conference on the new science of water
that was keynoted by Hans-Peter Durr, the emeritus professor of the Max
Planck Institute and the close student of Heisenberg. His topic was the
integration of quantum physics and healing, and all throughout the lecture
it seemed that he was offering a scientific premise for this work. I felt
convinced that either Hellinger knew his work or he knew Hellinger¹s or
both, or that the same inquiries were somehow in the field and they had both
tapped into them.
When I had the opportunity to speak with Hans-Peter, I asked and he had
indeed attended constellation workshops and immediately began to answer my
unasked question (how are we tapping into an information field?) using
precisely the metaphor you offered from Laszlo, Johannes.
In addition, I wanted to contribute this quote from a paper of his that one
of his close colleagues just sent me:
³The new so called ³quantum² physics revealed that the world at its
foundation is no the longer, the familiar (thing-like) reality but rather a
holistic
³gestalt:² pure ³interconnectedness,¹ inseparable ²potentiality.²
I¹ll offer an application of this and welcome refinements to it from all:
Constellations are a process for consciously engaging that
interconnectedness to expand potentiality in areas where perceived
constrictions of potentiality are subjectively experienced as creating
suffering.
Alison
On 10/24/07 2:47 AM, Johannes B. Schmidt at JohannesB.Schmidt@xxxxxxxxxxx
wrote:
I
Dear Chris,
after years of constellation work when I saw many occassions where people
did not get the healing from attending to the field or their family system
came across the saying which I think comes from the Sioux Indians. I cannot
quote it literally but it goes somewhat along these lines:future
If you heal yourself you heal your ancestors 7 generations back and 7
generations. This was for many people who had been searching the field andhelped
their family tree for many (Hellinger) years a liberating phrase and
them to connect with themselves on a much deeper level and to takebut
themselves more seriously.
As Kenn put it out in his words we are in the field and the field is in us
or they are connected with each other. We need not look outside (we can
we do not have to) because our inside is the outside and the outside isthe
inside. I see how difficult it is to understand that the interconnectionis
ubiquitous and almost in all dimensions. Hans Gruen made this statementthat
there is no field because we are the field. I do not take it as the finaldemonstrated
truth but it shifts our attention to in another way.
And, once our personal or family issues are relatively resolved the
collective issues come up within us (like in me issues about German
concentration camps) and then the work proceeds still to another level of
work makes us find the collective and it is no longer clear weather it is
within us, all around us or wherever it comes from. The information seems
all around us and the body seems to be an all body receptor organ to
participate in whatever. Ervin Laszlo describes our brain as the CPU of a
computer that constantly writes into the Akhaisa field and reads from this
field. There is more interesting stuff there.
Johannes
_____
Von: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] Im Auftrag von Chris Walsh
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Oktober 2007 00:43
An: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Betreff: RE: [ConstellationTalk] the Field as liminal space
Thankyou Kenn for introducing the idea of liminal space. It makes a lot of
sense to me.
Further to that I would like to point to a serious danger if we take too
extreme a position in seeing our ³reality² as being totally constructed.
One of the most refreshing things I found about Hellinger¹s work when I
first encountered it was the way it transcended the western 20th century
cult of the independent individual. Modern psychology had developed an
almost crazy overvaluing of autonomy and responsibility of the individual
for everything that happened to them. There were no victims there was no
fate greater than us total madness! Then Hellinger elegantly
how we are all entangled in each other¹s fates and in the fates of ourus
ancestors. We are not independent but rather interdependent. He even had
bow to fate and death. With these understandings we can be more relaxed,family
humbler and more compassionate.
It also became clear that acting on one part of an interdependent system
effects the rest of that system. So when we do a constellation on our
system it does not only effect the person doing the constellation. Thefield
question remains open as to whether effects on other family members are
directly through the constellation or through a change in the client¹s
perception.
Johannes I find your emphasis on the facilitator¹s and the client¹s
perceptions refreshing and incisive. It is a valuable and necessary
exploration at this stage of the work. At the same don¹t I don¹t wish to
throw out the baby with the bathwater. Let¹s not forget our insights about
interdependency and the fascinating way a constellation can access the
of a system .and
If we adopt an extreme subjective stance, we risk sinking into nihilism
existential angst. This is the inevitable consequence of extremeand
relativism. This happens because extreme relativism depends on the false
construct of disembodied independent individuals who construct reality in
their heads. After all if I give you a hug we may both project meanings
understandings onto that hug and yet it is still a hug.
Zen saying:
Before enlightenment -
The trees are trees, the mountains are mountains and the rivers are rivers
rivers
During the quest for enlightenment
The trees are no longer trees, the mountains are no longer mountains and
the rivers are no longer rivers.
After enlightenment
The trees are again trees, the mountains are again mountains and the
are again rivers.
But you walk with your feet six inches off the ground!
Go figure!
hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
webpage: www.cwalsh.com.au
From: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Johannes B. Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 7:06 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: AW: [ConstellationTalk] the Field as liminal space
Hi Kenn,
well put. I agree. All the differentiation is in our mind as we are
interconnected. Because of this interconnectedness whatever we resolve in
ourselves is resolved in the field.
Best
Johannes
_____
Von: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] Im Auftrag von Kenn Day
Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Oktober 2007 16:45
An: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Betreff: [ConstellationTalk] the Field as liminal space
As I understand it, Johannes has suggested that the constellations we
see set up in the field are in fact presentations of the client's
inner experience. I would not argue with that, as far as it goes.
However, one of the key elements of shamanic work, which applies to
Constellations as well, is a state of consciousness in which the
inner and the outer self overlap into a consistant whole. This is
often referred to as "liminal consciousness". As a facilitator, I am
very aware of entering this liminal state in order to perceive the
dynamics of the field. I am equally aware that another thing seems to
happen in the field as well and that is the interaction with more
than the individual client's view of what is going on.
It is not enough to say that the constellation represents the inner
experience of the client and leave it at that. We also need to
recognize that this inner experience is engaged with the family or
organizational soul, and thus is capable of expressing and revealing
things that the individual is completely unaware of.
Other thoughts on this?
namaste,
Kenn
P.S. Cris - it was great meeting you in NC. I hope we can do it again
sometime.
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