MessageDear Collegues
In constellations we see that depression mostly has to do with missing someone:
the father or the mother. If I work with a depressive person and I only ask
them the question: who do you miss? (and after a while) Is it more your father
or your mother? Their faces usually lighten up and they feel relieved, and
somehow understood. From there the work starts.
But in depression altered with manic periods, Bert Hellinger describes in some
constellations that the depression is the fase where they don't look at the
dead person or their guilt and in manic periods, they see their guilt and don't
know what to do with it.
In other workshops Hellinger said: in depression the person is seeing the real
problem and emptyness and in manic periods he doesn't look at the real issue.
What I read in your story is that depression and being suicidal are used in the
same sentence. Many therapists are most afraid of the suicidal part. Out of
this fear they can't clearly see the real situation of the depression. Or that
of the suicide of course. We can only be of help if we agree to all as it is,
including death. There is a very good article by Bert Hellinger about this
helping in the Knowing field nr. 4.
I hope this is a little contribution in thinking about depressions and what to
do with them. The problems arise when you think of antidepressants as the
solution and not as a tool to get to a good solution for everyone in a safer
way. My experience in working with people who were on antidepression drugs is
that during therapy we always got to a point where we could not make progress
on a deeper level and we both knew this. The clients never got 'permission'
from the doctor to stop their medicine, although they were already doing much
better and were getting on with their lives. So at that point we stopped the
therapy and acknowledged it. To me it seems that when a client gets
antidepressives their 'illness' is not theirs anymore but the doctors, and it
is so for a very long time. With painkillers f.i. you stay in
charge/responsible for your own pain much more.
Have a nice day
Margreet Mossel
www.opstellingen.com
the Netherlands
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Walsh
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:34 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Antidepressants & FC P.S
Just a further thought on antidepressants.
If a case appeared where someone in the family had died while being on
antidepressants, it might be interesting to see if a representative for
antidepressants carried any weight in the constellation or not. This would be
more likely to be the case if antidepressants had somehow contributed to the
death. (Old tricyclic antidepressants can be fatal in overdose. Modern SSRI
antidepressants such as Prozac and Zoloft can, in less than 5% of cases, cause
severe agitation, which if not identified may rarely cause a patient to become
violent or to suicide)
Still the most important issue around depression and constellation work is
the ability of constellations to deal with entanglements that contribute to
depression. Another entanglement apart from the one already mentioned is the
desire to follow a dead relative into death.
Hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
Website www.constellationflow.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Walsh
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:30 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Antidepressants & FC
Dear Tom,
I have done heaps of constellations on people who have been
on antidepressant and also on people who have come off them. For none of them
have the antidepressants been an issue so far. Then again only one had trouble
coming off the antidepressants but she eventually succeeded. The rest found the
depression a much greater problem than the antidepressants. Of course
constellations can be very helpful for depression when there is a systemic
entanglement such as "I go instead of you (into death) " If this is addressed
in a constellation it may help to make antidepressants unnecessary for a
particular individual. This, of course, is a good thing.
Perhaps the information you have found on the web is not particularly
representative of real life. I do know that it is not a good idea to prescribe
these medications to adolescents whose brains are different to adults and
respond differently. However, in Australia most doctors are responsible enough
not to prescribe them for this age group and to monitor for the uncommon side
effect of agitation that causes the most serious reported problems in adults.
Like most medications, when used sensibly antidepressants can be very helpful
and save a lot of suffering. Nonetheless is still a very good idea to
investigate why the prevalence of depression is increasing in modern society.
Hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
Website www.constellationflow.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tmasthenes13
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 5:58 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Antidepressants & FC
The other evening on the late night Coast to Coast AM radio show, Ian
Punnett interviewed Dr. Ann Blake Tracy, director of the International
Coalition for Drug Awareness,
http://www.drugawareness.org/home.html
about the horrendous side effects of antidepressants, including suicide
and homicide, especially among young people in America.
Quoting from the C2C program website:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/11/19.html
"Tracy specifically detailed the correlation between several school/work
shootings and antidepressants. She also revealed that Dylan Klebold, one of the
two students involved in the Columbine killings, was allegedly taking the
antidepressants Zoloft and Paxil."
_________________
I wonder if any facilitators have done constellations with clients who
are on antidepressants.
If so, have you observed the effects of the antidepressants in the field,
whether the client is still taking the drugs, or is going through the
withdrawal phase?
In reading through the many horrendous survivor stories on Dr. Tracy's
website (access here)
http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Survivors/survivor_index.html
it is clear that the effects are sometimes so intense that it would seem
to warrant putting the antidepressants themselves, or the withdrawl symptoms,
as elements into the knowing field.
Thomas
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