MessageDear Chris
Thank you for your clear and compassionate contribution about those who are
depressed and your recognition of the real human suffering involved. I
appreciated your sharing from your knowledge as a psychiatrist because this is
an area I am not trained in. Here in the UK it is rare that psychiatrists are
trained therapists -and vice versa -so much knowledge that could be mutually
useful remains in rigid compartments. As to your quote
Just as western doctors and psychiatrists can be rigid in their application of
a reductionistic biological model, alternative practitioners can cause just as
much harm by rejecting the positive contribution that science and western
medicine can make when appropriately applied. Mutual respect is not just more
pleasant, it is also produces better outcomes for everyone concerned.
YES! If we were to set up a constellation of the conventional and the
alternative models we would, I'm sure, be reminded that each has its rightful
place, each needs to be seen and respected by the other, each belongs.
Thanks for your generosity in sharing this - and of course for the generosity
it must have taken to set up this site in the first place.
gratefully
A good day to all
Barbara Stones
London
Barbara Stones
Barbara@systemicsolutions
59 Englewood Road
Clapham South
London SW12 9PB
Tel: 0044 (0)208 673 2508
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Walsh
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Anti-depressantsClarifacation
I believe it is important for constellation practitioners to have some
reasonable understanding of depression, as it if a common condition that is
likely to be over represented in our workshops.
My previous email was mostly referring to people who suffer severe depression
as these are the ones I more commonly see as a psychiatrist.
People with a mild depression usually, although not always, respond to
psychotherapy or alternative therapies alone.
People with a moderate level depression will also sometimes respond well to
these modalities alone. However they are more likely to need conventional
antidepressants. Complementary therapies of various kinds can be be given in
parallel, except St John's Wort cannot as it can interact in a nasty way with
conventional antidepressants. Other alternative medications also need to be
checked for the possibility of interactions.
People with a severe depression are a special case. With this condition it is
almost impossible to recover without conventional medications. Once they kick
in completely (2-4 weeks) other treatments have a chance of working. Prior to
that, these people suffer unrelenting low mood with intense negative
distortions of thinking as well as severe insomnia, loss of appetite and weight
and severely impaired concentration and inability to enjoy even simple
pleasures. So life is bloody miserable and they feel as if there is little or
no hope. These symptoms make talking treatments impossible and are beyond the
scope of others to make a fast enough recovery.
In order for the brain to stabilise in a non depressive chemical balance,
treatment is required to continue at the dose needed to attain recovery for at
least 6 to 12 months. The majority of people can then come off antidepressants
without suffering a relapse.
Hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
Website www.constellationflow.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Walsh
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 8:30 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Anti-depressants
Hi Bubula,
I agree with Ginny that it is best to apply the "rule of
hygiene" regarding representatives. That is regardless of what the
representative brings to the role, it works out better to treat it as if it
belongs to the person they are representing. I have had several good lessons in
this regard. One I like to use as an example is the following.
Several weeks after a workshop a representative of a father in a
constellation told me that he didn't feel that he did the role justice because
he had felt like crying but held it in because of his own issues. I few days
later I met the woman whose constellation it was. Spontaneously and unsolicited
she commented on how helpful her constellation had been already. She then went
on to say that the representative for the father was especially accurate. When
I asked her how, she said that the way he looked as if he wanted to cry but
wouldn't let go was especially typical !!
Regarding the new SSRI antidepressants it is very difficult to tell if
someone is on them unless they are either overmedicated or under medicated.
Overmedicated people have decreased emotional responsiveness. Under medicated
people are still partially depressed and may have trouble concentrating. They
are struggling with pervasive low mood and also have decreased responsiveness.
Appropriately medicated people are clear and responsive. They are more capable
of benefiting from psychological treatments and they are not prone to the
shrinkage of the part of the brain called the hippocampus, which does happen
in people who are unfortunate enough to suffer from chronic untreated
depression. I have seen too many people who have struggled for years with
depression trying a whole raft of psychological and alternative treatments to
no avail who have eventually recovered with conventional antidepressant
medications. They have then been able to finally benefit from applying these
other treatments.
One very interesting patient had a strong genetic predisposition. As well
as a strong family history he had a very early age of onset and needed quite
high doses of antidepressants to get well. After a proper course of medication
(6 to 12 months), he tried to come off antidepressants three times and relapsed
within 3 months. Nonetheless he continued on his psychological and spiritual
journey. Part of that journey was to accept his fate that he may have to stay
on antidepressants indefinitely to live a normal life. This appears to be the
case for a small percentage of people who suffer depression. However, through a
surprising set of circumstances he came off his medication a fourth time and
has remained well for 3 years.
I tell this story as a warning against applying trite formulas about
different types of treatment. Just as western doctors and psychiatrists can be
rigid in their application of a reductionistic biological model, alternative
practitioners can cause just as much harm by rejecting the positive
contribution that science and western medicine can make when appropriately
applied. Mutual respect is not just more pleasant, it is also produces better
outcomes for everyone concerned.
Hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
Website www.constellationflow.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bubula Lardi
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:34 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Anti-depressants
Dear Chris,
Do you think that people on anti-depressants who are standing as
representatives are less clear in their representation?
I have not previously asked people if they were on medication, but I
wonder if it might not be a good idea to inquire, as a general rule.
However, I can usually tell if clients are on anti-depressants.
I appreciate the clarity of your remarks on medication, as it is not an
area I'm particularly familiar with.
Best wishes,
Bubula Lardi
Byron Bay
Australia
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