Re: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1881

From: Joe Pirone <drjmpirone@xxxxxxx>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 07:18:17 -0400

Prior to any complex thought of either victimization or perpretation is the
word,( or a string of them), prior to word is the act, prior to act is
presence,prior to presence in a group is......
Thanks Gary for a thought about realigning the coordinates of the group
GPS...or as the group Zero 7 sings it

"Today"

Sirens sounding out, are we going to war
A film of yesterday on a broken down door
Send me something real to ignore or explore
And I'll show you all the things that I saw

Today
The words don't mean enough for us to say
For us to say
Today
To steal the moment that we gave away
We gave away
Gave it away

Can't remember when, but it's happened before
Saw it all played out through a crack in the door
Send me something good for the way that I feel
And I'll show you all the things that I've seen

Today
The words don't mean enough for us to say
For us to say
today
To steal the moment that we gave away
We gave away

Today
We are the light that travels into space
Into space

We are the light that travels into space
We are the light that travels into space
We are the light that travels into space
We are the light that travels into space
We are the light that travels into space

On Oct 5, 2011, at 1:20 AM, gary stuart wrote:

Good thread Thomas,

In the Kabbalah there is a statement that "There is no such thing as Darkness
only an absence of Light" Hummm.... Let's not forget the Yin and Yang of it
all... it makes the wheel of life go round.... Life feeds Death as Death
feeds life Light feeds Dark as Dark feeds light. I did a group exercise with
us ALL bowing to the energy of Perpetrators then Victims and those aspects we
play out in our lives at either end of the spectrum. An IDEA popped into my
head as I was going to end it there... Then I had an insight to bow to the
bigger Force/Light that encompasses both aspects. Perpetrator and Victim
instantly became small, immature like recess antics in a schoolyard in the
face of non-duality. we ALL felt transformed by this short bowing exercise as
the Knowing Field guided me and us to this point of understanding an
unconditional totality that embraces both simultaneously. We can thanks Bert
for guiding us to this point and the Field for allowing us to see its
grandeur and elegance of simplest movement of humbleness.

A sincere Namaste Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxx & www.chifield.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1881
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, October 04, 2011 11:39 am
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMDZpMzE3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQMxMzE3NzUzNTgz>
Constellation Talk

Messages In This Digest (11 Messages)

1a.

Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio From:
Robert Grant

1b.

Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio From:
Joe Pirone

1c.

Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio From:
Hania Moser

1d.

Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio From:
David Chaloner

1e.

Re: light in the darkness From: Thomas Bryson

1f.

Re: light in the darkness From: Joe Pirone

2a.

FW: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) From: melody Allen

2b.

Re: FW: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) From: ed lynch

3.1.

Re: new topic line please Re: epigenetics and trauma: From: luis moreira

3.2.

Re: new topic line please Re: epigenetics and trauma:sand,waves,hint From:
Joe Pirone

3.3.

Re: new topic line please Re: epigenetics and trauma:sand,waves,hint From:
luis moreira

View All Topics
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOWdlMHIxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNhdHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTc3NTM1ODM-?xm=1&m=p&tidx=1>
| Create New Topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOTBiNG5xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTc3NTM1ODM->

Messages

1a.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7853;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGdlb3ViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio

Posted by: "Robert Grant" erebees@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:erebees@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>

Mon Oct 3, 2011 3:03 pm (PDT)

Lost in the dark cellar (I, myself) but searching for it in the light
court yard (entropically. libidinized shards of affective-cognitive
phenomenological interface and epistemological position)

Sad, isnt it?

Kind regards,
Robert

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:erebees@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMTZtM3QzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7853>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7842;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZHRrbjFiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODQy>
(10)

1b.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7855;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM203ams4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTUEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio

Posted by: "Joe Pirone" drjmpirone@xxxxxxx
<mailto:drjmpirone@xxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
dechardin1 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/dechardin1>

Mon Oct 3, 2011 4:08 pm (PDT)

Jung said it is in the darkness that the great light is found...not sure what
he meant by it..perhaps someone has an idea?
On Oct 3, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Robert Grant wrote:

Kind regards,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:drjmpirone@xxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaDlkdGgwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTUEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7855>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7842;_ylc=X3oDMTM1dWtiZzg4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTUEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODQy>
(10)

1c.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7856;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM2trcGd2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio

Posted by: "Hania Moser" haniamoser@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:haniamoser@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>

Mon Oct 3, 2011 7:00 pm (PDT)

Hi Joe Pirone

To the Jung quote about a great light found in the darkness - I'd add
another quote as response:
Our eyes are caught by light, but shadows have more to say (J.Macguire)

Thanks for that beautiful story about young monk searching for his book in
the garden, because there is more light...such accurate metaphore of modern
science paradigm!!!!

Regarding your question again - relation between light and darkness/shadow
is obvious and inevitable, like yin-yang, life-death etc.
And I think Jung meant these things too.

Gestalt approach also explained these relations furtherly.

Regards
--
Hania Moser, M.Psych., Melbourne
*
Knowledge is learning something every day. Wisdom is learning of letting go
every day. Zen Proverb*

On 4 October 2011 10:08, Joe Pirone <drjmpirone@xxxxxxx
<mailto:drjmpirone%40mac.com> > wrote:

**

Jung said it is in the darkness that the great light is found...not sure
what he meant by it..perhaps someone has an idea?
On Oct 3, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Robert Grant wrote:

Kind regards,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:haniamoser@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMnJoY2RqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7856>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7842;_ylc=X3oDMTM1NDBwaG5pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODQy>
(10)

1d.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7857;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMGY1dDRhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTcEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: Loewald,Jung, Bert ,object relations to the psychoid,night visio

Posted by: "David Chaloner" chalonerdd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:chalonerdd@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>

Mon Oct 3, 2011 7:11 pm (PDT)

Following the thoughts being shared around Jung and the shadow,I suggest
Thomas Keatings,The Human Condition.An hour worth spending,regards David C.

Sent from my iPad by David Chaloner
09 846 9505 mob 0276100642

On Oct 4, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Hania Moser <haniamoser@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:haniamoser%40gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi Joe Pirone

To the Jung quote about a great light found in the darkness - I'd add
another quote as response:
Our eyes are caught by light, but shadows have more to say (J.Macguire)

Thanks for that beautiful story about young monk searching for his book in
the garden, because there is more light...such accurate metaphore of modern
science paradigm!!!!

Regarding your question again - relation between light and darkness/shadow
is obvious and inevitable, like yin-yang, life-death etc.
And I think Jung meant these things too.

Gestalt approach also explained these relations furtherly.

Regards
--
Hania Moser, M.Psych., Melbourne
*
Knowledge is learning something every day. Wisdom is learning of letting go
every day. Zen Proverb*

On 4 October 2011 10:08, Joe Pirone <drjmpirone@xxxxxxx
<mailto:drjmpirone%40mac.com> > wrote:

**

Jung said it is in the darkness that the great light is found...not sure
what he meant by it..perhaps someone has an idea?
On Oct 3, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Robert Grant wrote:

Kind regards,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:chalonerdd@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Loewald%2CJung%2C%20Bert%20%2Cobject%20relations%20to%20the%20psychoid%2Cnight%20visio>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxY2dnNnJrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTcEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7857>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7842;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZTViZGFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTcEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODQy>
(10)

1e.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7859;_ylc=X3oDMTJxc2JlZDNxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: light in the darkness

Posted by: "Thomas Bryson" tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20light%20in%20the%20darkness>
thomas.bryson@xxxxxxxxx <http://profiles.yahoo.com/thomas.bryson@xxxxxxxxx>

Tue Oct 4, 2011 1:54 am (PDT)

When we think we know that the darkness is merely dark, we don't experience
it directly, phenomenologically. When we are willing to step into not knowing
and to actually experience the empty darkness that we have so long avoided,
one finds that it isn't actually dark at all. The presence that is looking
through our eyes is the light in the darkness. That is the 'Treasure in the
Darkness.'

The great Christian mystic Saint John of the Cross: "In order to come to the
knowledge you have not, you must go by a way in which you know not."

On Oct 4, 2011, at 1:08 AM, Joe Pirone wrote:

Jung said it is in the darkness that the great light is found...not sure
what he meant by it..perhaps someone has an idea?
On Oct 3, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Robert Grant wrote:

Kind regards,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20light%20in%20the%20darkness>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20light%20in%20the%20darkness>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdTRvc2U4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7859>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7842;_ylc=X3oDMTM1Ymt2Z3F0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODQy>
(10)

1f.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7860;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXZyNTZwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjAEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: light in the darkness

Posted by: "Joe Pirone" drjmpirone@xxxxxxx
<mailto:drjmpirone@xxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20light%20in%20the%20darkness>
dechardin1 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/dechardin1>

Tue Oct 4, 2011 3:18 am (PDT)

Thomas,so succinctly stated, thank you.
.In a sense," knowing" if knowing is done thru the defense/fixation structure
is just another mildly "Luciferic" illusional experience that the knower
takes as real. To me as Bert's Heart of the Matter explores, this awareness
of an awareness that is aware of our 'I" is where the "shift" that creates
the field of forgiveness happens. It is a burdenless burden.
On Oct 4, 2011, at 4:31 AM, Thomas Bryson wrote:

When we think we know that the darkness is merely dark, we don't experience
it directly, phenomenologically. When we are willing to step into not
knowing and to actually experience the empty darkness that we have so long
avoided, one finds that it isn't actually dark at all. The presence that is
looking through our eyes is the light in the darkness. That is the
'Treasure in the Darkness.'

The great Christian mystic Saint John of the Cross: "In order to come to
the knowledge you have not, you must go by a way in which you know not."

On Oct 4, 2011, at 1:08 AM, Joe Pirone wrote:

Jung said it is in the darkness that the great light is found...not sure
what he meant by it..perhaps someone has an idea?
On Oct 3, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Robert Grant wrote:

Kind regards,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:drjmpirone@xxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20light%20in%20the%20darkness>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20light%20in%20the%20darkness>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMnIyM2Q0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjAEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7860>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7842;_ylc=X3oDMTM1bnUyaHZpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjAEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODQy>
(10)

2a.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7854;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbWQ5YXUzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTQEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
FW: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

Posted by: "melody Allen" melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20FW%3A%20Delivery%20Status%20Notification%20%28Failure%29>

Mon Oct 3, 2011 3:35 pm (PDT)

Melody Allen, MA, LPC-I
www.psychesync.squarespace.com
melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
832-338-9971 (cell)

From: postmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:postmaster%40mail.hotmail.com>
To: melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:33:28 -0700
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:constellationtalk%40yahoo.com>

--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:constellationtalk%40yahoo.com>
Subject:
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:32:42 -0500

Hello Constellation family,I have an odd request. I am trying to recommend a
chapter in Messengers of Healing to a colleague. I am traveling and don't
have my copy handy. Does anyone know the page numbers for the chapter: The
Couple is More Than Just Two?
Thanks for your help!
Cheers,

Melody Allen, MA, LPC-I
www.psychesync.squarespace.com
melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
832-338-9971 (cell)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20FW%3A%20Delivery%20Status%20Notification%20%28Failure%29>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20FW%3A%20Delivery%20Status%20Notification%20%28Failure%29>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYmhjNGxpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTQEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7854>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7854;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cGNvcXJzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTQEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODU0>
(2)

2b.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7858;_ylc=X3oDMTJxY21haTFiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: FW: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

Posted by: "ed lynch" breakers2@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:breakers2@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20FW%3A%20Delivery%20Status%20Notification%20%28Failure%29>

Mon Oct 3, 2011 7:25 pm (PDT)

Hi Melody,
The page numbers are 157 to 181 in Messengers of Healing. The ideas are also
further developed in Couples and Couples Therapy available on amazon by
Barbara Lynch.
Ed

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 6:35 PM, melody Allen <melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com> >wrote:

**

Melody Allen, MA, LPC-I
www.psychesync.squarespace.com
melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
832-338-9971 (cell)

From: postmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:postmaster%40mail.hotmail.com>
To: melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:33:28 -0700
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:constellationtalk%40yahoo.com>

--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:constellationtalk%40yahoo.com>
Subject:
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:32:42 -0500

Hello Constellation family,I have an odd request. I am trying to recommend
a chapter in Messengers of Healing to a colleague. I am traveling and don't
have my copy handy. Does anyone know the page numbers for the chapter: The
Couple is More Than Just Two?
Thanks for your help!
Cheers,

Melody Allen, MA, LPC-I
www.psychesync.squarespace.com
melodyallen75@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:melodyallen75%40hotmail.com>
832-338-9971 (cell)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:breakers2@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20FW%3A%20Delivery%20Status%20Notification%20%28Failure%29>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20FW%3A%20Delivery%20Status%20Notification%20%28Failure%29>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaGZwdmE3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7858>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7854;_ylc=X3oDMTM1aDhsczlhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NTgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3ODU0>
(2)

3.1.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7861;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZmthNWxyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjEEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: new topic line please Re: epigenetics and trauma:

Posted by: "luis moreira" luismvm@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:luismvm@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3A>

Tue Oct 4, 2011 3:21 am (PDT)

Hi.

We can always to do, 2 thinks.

To be afraid or to catch de apportunity to flow.

stay well.

2011/10/2 Joe Pirone <drjmpirone@xxxxxxx <mailto:drjmpirone%40mac.com> >

**

There are many paths to the Path, may we all respect the one's that are not
ours so long as they resonate to Transpersonal Truth and are not caught in
personal truth. drj

On Oct 2, 2011, at 11:57 AM, luis moreira wrote:

Hello.

Finnaly, someone who talks, seriously!...

Maybe, we all, find a way to catch the truth. Maybe.

If we see all our life, like an apportunity for that, maybe, maybe wern't

so

certainly of our personall point of view, byt, only, see an apportunity

to

share, our all experiences.

Sorry for my english, but, I think, your all understand me.

Thank you.

2011/10/1 anni <annimukkala@xxxxxxxx <mailto:annimukkala%40yahoo.ca> >

**

Regarding your response to Vinay (which is included below), Sadhana Kay,
It seems that the topic has veered. We may all perhaps agree that
constellation work is underpinned by deep spiritual connectedness but I
wonder if promoting a single kind of spiritual philosophy is in the best
interests of CT? I could easily expound my own particular spiritual
practices and so could any one of us. However, Kay, your post feels a

bit

like a preacher telling his flock to do his bidding. I would acknowledge
that there might be a place here to share the diversity of spiritual

growth

but that it would require a topical introduction and an open format to
encourage thinking toward the broader view and not the more limited

view.

I am not choosing to voice my own thoughts at this point on meditation

or

contemplation or prayer. Your views on spiritual growth may or may not

be a

valid underpinning for constellation work but to discuss them, I think

that

a topic ought to be stated in the topic line and that your particular

views

need to be presented as your personal opinions. I may or may not have

the

same understanding about all constellation work that you do. You stand

in

this post, it appears to me, in a place that looks down on the community
gathered here at CT to preach to us how we ought to see things. My
perspective is often quite different than your perspective or that of

others

here. And that is perfect. We walk in unique slippers. Your size may not

fit

me.

Trusting that all words we share here on CT are grounded in the power of
love which enlightens. Anni

--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> , Kay Needham
<familyconstellationinfo@...> wrote:

Hello Vinay and others interested in this thread,
There is something about all systemic work that is worth understanding

and is sometimes not seen. That is, that every system is a living system
that grows via

1.Â Feeding
2.Â Excreting
The actions of taking in and taking out are essential for growth.
Human beings are also what we refer to as "a dissipative system."
As facilitators we tend to focus on "feeding" and often forget

"excreting."

It is essential for "waste" to move out of a living system also.
Waste is the past.
Waste is the mind.
If we are also feeding with mind we are adding to the waste.
Techniques and meditations that give a taste of no mind are needed to

help clients release the past. Active meditations designed by Osho where
designed for this reason to compliment all forms of therapy working with
trauma. To provide support for body mind opening. These meditations work
very well, and are very scientific in their approach. They are designed

to

assist meditation as a tool for transformation.

www.osho.com
Â
Kind regards
Sadhana
Â
Â
Â
Â
Â

________________________________
From: Steve Vinay Gunther <spirited@...>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: epigenetics and trauma: And what can

we

do to aleviate this?????

Â

Hi folks

This discussion interests me in terms of understanding something I have

have quite worked out.

In my constellation work I very rarely hear back that someone left it

in

some way that didnt work for them. The exception was something that

happened

when I worked with some aboriginal students in a Masters of Indiginous
studies and Trauma Healing, at a local Uni. I worked with the class on a
number of occasions, using both Gestalt and constellations work.

Everything

went really well - the class really appreciated the approaches, and the
therapeutic work was particularly poignant. When it came to doing the
constellation work with them, it seemed perfect. Within a cultural

frame,

they could of course immediately recognise the nature of the work, and

they

took to it readily. Because of the extremely complex intergenerational
trauma that has resulted from government policy (removing children from
their families), the constellation work seemed to be highly effective in
being able to embrace the largeness of the trauma, and work with it.

So, everyone was pleased, moved, and reported positively.

Because of the nature of the course, the subject of trauma was

something

they were familiar with, and the coordinator of the course spent time

with

them talking about it, looking at healing modalities etc. However, what
happened afterward the constellation work I did with them is that over

the

course of a number of months, a number of people in the course started

to

really act out in quite destructive ways. ALthough none of the students

held

a negative impression of the constellation work, the coordinator

suspected

that it was the trigger for a flood of trauma which was too much, and

hence

the acting out. As a result, I did not get a chance to go back and

continue

the work or do any followup.

It seems that the resources of the course, and the individuals, were

not

enough to handle what got opened up, even though within the

constellations

themselves it appeared a great deal of healing took place. I had

recommended

followup work, both individual and collective, but the resources of the

uni

and the structure of the course were such that that level of work was

not

available.

I continue to wonder about that experience, and what to learn from it.

Reading this thread makes me think that this was a situation where the
PTSD/complex trauma was bigger than what the course, or I could offer.

It

makes me wonder about what I could have done differently, or whether

theres

instances where I need to somehow slow the constellation down, so not

too

much gets opened up. This is a strange thought, as I generally just have

a

sense of serviing the field in front of me, as it opens up, in its own
rhythm.

Interested in people's comments.

Vinay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
*Luís Viegas Moreira*<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lu

ís-Viegas-Moreira/169008393550>

*tlm*. 919 744 249 *** *Skype:* luismvm1* * Messenger:*

*luismvm@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:%2Aluismvm%40live.com.pt>

*
*
<http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com>*
*o Despertar do «EU» <http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com> - **
Actividades <http://actividadesodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Classes

de VOZ <http://classesdevozodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Constelações

Familiares <http://constelacoesfamiliaresodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> -
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/LuisViegasMoreira> *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

--
*Luís Viegas
Moreira*<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Luís-Viegas-Moreira/169008393550>

*tlm*. 919 744 249 *** *Skype:* luismvm1* * Messenger:* *luismvm@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:%2Aluismvm%40live.com.pt>
*
*
<http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com>*
*o Despertar do «EU» <http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com> - **
Actividades <http://actividadesodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-** **Classes
de VOZ <http://classesdevozodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-** **Constelações
Familiares <http://constelacoesfamiliaresodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> -
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/LuisViegasMoreira> *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:luismvm@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3A>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3A>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMGVjb3BlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjEEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7861>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7772;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZXJ0a3JiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjEEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3Nzcy>
(52)

3.2.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7862;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbnBlcWc3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjIEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: new topic line please Re: epigenetics and trauma:sand,waves,hint

Posted by: "Joe Pirone" drjmpirone@xxxxxxx
<mailto:drjmpirone@xxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3Asand%2Cwaves%2Chint>
dechardin1 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/dechardin1>

Tue Oct 4, 2011 3:29 am (PDT)

Ah yes, perhaps its like the ocean's waves, as the wave of fear recedes from
the shore,another wave, of flow, is often made possible. Sand castles by the
shore become dissolved. In doing so, the ocean knows the sand, and in the
sand's dissolution, a glimpse,just a fleeting glimpse, of the oc....n is
gotten, thru a wave darkly.
On Oct 4, 2011, at 6:21 AM, luis moreira wrote:

Hi.

We can always to do, 2 thinks.

To be afraid or to catch de apportunity to flow.

stay well.

2011/10/2 Joe Pirone <drjmpirone@xxxxxxx <mailto:drjmpirone%40mac.com> >

**

There are many paths to the Path, may we all respect the one's that are not
ours so long as they resonate to Transpersonal Truth and are not caught in
personal truth. drj

On Oct 2, 2011, at 11:57 AM, luis moreira wrote:

Hello.

Finnaly, someone who talks, seriously!...

Maybe, we all, find a way to catch the truth. Maybe.

If we see all our life, like an apportunity for that, maybe, maybe wern't

so

certainly of our personall point of view, byt, only, see an apportunity

to

share, our all experiences.

Sorry for my english, but, I think, your all understand me.

Thank you.

2011/10/1 anni <annimukkala@xxxxxxxx <mailto:annimukkala%40yahoo.ca> >

**

Regarding your response to Vinay (which is included below), Sadhana Kay,
It seems that the topic has veered. We may all perhaps agree that
constellation work is underpinned by deep spiritual connectedness but I
wonder if promoting a single kind of spiritual philosophy is in the best
interests of CT? I could easily expound my own particular spiritual
practices and so could any one of us. However, Kay, your post feels a

bit

like a preacher telling his flock to do his bidding. I would acknowledge
that there might be a place here to share the diversity of spiritual

growth

but that it would require a topical introduction and an open format to
encourage thinking toward the broader view and not the more limited

view.

I am not choosing to voice my own thoughts at this point on meditation

or

contemplation or prayer. Your views on spiritual growth may or may not

be a

valid underpinning for constellation work but to discuss them, I think

that

a topic ought to be stated in the topic line and that your particular

views

need to be presented as your personal opinions. I may or may not have

the

same understanding about all constellation work that you do. You stand

in

this post, it appears to me, in a place that looks down on the community
gathered here at CT to preach to us how we ought to see things. My
perspective is often quite different than your perspective or that of

others

here. And that is perfect. We walk in unique slippers. Your size may not

fit

me.

Trusting that all words we share here on CT are grounded in the power of
love which enlightens. Anni

--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> , Kay Needham
<familyconstellationinfo@...> wrote:

Hello Vinay and others interested in this thread,
There is something about all systemic work that is worth understanding

and is sometimes not seen. That is, that every system is a living system
that grows via

1.Â Feeding
2.Â Excreting
The actions of taking in and taking out are essential for growth.
Human beings are also what we refer to as "a dissipative system."
As facilitators we tend to focus on "feeding" and often forget

"excreting."

It is essential for "waste" to move out of a living system also.
Waste is the past.
Waste is the mind.
If we are also feeding with mind we are adding to the waste.
Techniques and meditations that give a taste of no mind are needed to

help clients release the past. Active meditations designed by Osho where
designed for this reason to compliment all forms of therapy working with
trauma. To provide support for body mind opening. These meditations work
very well, and are very scientific in their approach. They are designed

to

assist meditation as a tool for transformation.

www.osho.com
Â
Kind regards
Sadhana
Â
Â
Â
Â
Â

________________________________
From: Steve Vinay Gunther <spirited@...>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: epigenetics and trauma: And what can

we

do to aleviate this?????

Â

Hi folks

This discussion interests me in terms of understanding something I have

have quite worked out.

In my constellation work I very rarely hear back that someone left it

in

some way that didnt work for them. The exception was something that

happened

when I worked with some aboriginal students in a Masters of Indiginous
studies and Trauma Healing, at a local Uni. I worked with the class on a
number of occasions, using both Gestalt and constellations work.

Everything

went really well - the class really appreciated the approaches, and the
therapeutic work was particularly poignant. When it came to doing the
constellation work with them, it seemed perfect. Within a cultural

frame,

they could of course immediately recognise the nature of the work, and

they

took to it readily. Because of the extremely complex intergenerational
trauma that has resulted from government policy (removing children from
their families), the constellation work seemed to be highly effective in
being able to embrace the largeness of the trauma, and work with it.

So, everyone was pleased, moved, and reported positively.

Because of the nature of the course, the subject of trauma was

something

they were familiar with, and the coordinator of the course spent time

with

them talking about it, looking at healing modalities etc. However, what
happened afterward the constellation work I did with them is that over

the

course of a number of months, a number of people in the course started

to

really act out in quite destructive ways. ALthough none of the students

held

a negative impression of the constellation work, the coordinator

suspected

that it was the trigger for a flood of trauma which was too much, and

hence

the acting out. As a result, I did not get a chance to go back and

continue

the work or do any followup.

It seems that the resources of the course, and the individuals, were

not

enough to handle what got opened up, even though within the

constellations

themselves it appeared a great deal of healing took place. I had

recommended

followup work, both individual and collective, but the resources of the

uni

and the structure of the course were such that that level of work was

not

available.

I continue to wonder about that experience, and what to learn from it.

Reading this thread makes me think that this was a situation where the
PTSD/complex trauma was bigger than what the course, or I could offer.

It

makes me wonder about what I could have done differently, or whether

theres

instances where I need to somehow slow the constellation down, so not

too

much gets opened up. This is a strange thought, as I generally just have

a

sense of serviing the field in front of me, as it opens up, in its own
rhythm.

Interested in people's comments.

Vinay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
*Luís Viegas Moreira*<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lu

ís-Viegas-Moreira/169008393550>

*tlm*. 919 744 249 *** *Skype:* luismvm1* * Messenger:*

*luismvm@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:%2Aluismvm%40live.com.pt>

*
*
<http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com>*
*o Despertar do «EU» <http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com> - **
Actividades <http://actividadesodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Classes

de VOZ <http://classesdevozodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Constelações

Familiares <http://constelacoesfamiliaresodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> -
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/LuisViegasMoreira> *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

--
*Luís Viegas
Moreira*<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Luís-Viegas-Moreira/169008393550>

*tlm*. 919 744 249 *** *Skype:* luismvm1* * Messenger:*
*luismvm@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:%2Aluismvm%40live.com.pt>
*
*
<http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com>*
*o Despertar do «EU» <http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com> - **
Actividades <http://actividadesodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-** **Classes
de VOZ <http://classesdevozodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**
**Constelações
Familiares <http://constelacoesfamiliaresodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> -
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/LuisViegasMoreira> *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:drjmpirone@xxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3Asand%2Cwaves%2Chint>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3Asand%2Cwaves%2Chint>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxanFjaXRvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjIEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7862>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7772;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N3FzYTFwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjIEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3Nzcy>
(52)

3.3.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7863;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYnZnaDN2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
Re: new topic line please Re: epigenetics and trauma:sand,waves,hint

Posted by: "luis moreira" luismvm@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:luismvm@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3Asand%2Cwaves%2Chint>

Tue Oct 4, 2011 4:31 am (PDT)

As you wish, my friend.

As you wish.

2011/10/4 Joe Pirone <drjmpirone@xxxxxxx <mailto:drjmpirone%40mac.com> >

**

Ah yes, perhaps its like the ocean's waves, as the wave of fear recedes
from the shore,another wave, of flow, is often made possible. Sand castles
by the shore become dissolved. In doing so, the ocean knows the sand, and in
the sand's dissolution, a glimpse,just a fleeting glimpse, of the oc....n is
gotten, thru a wave darkly.
On Oct 4, 2011, at 6:21 AM, luis moreira wrote:

Hi.

We can always to do, 2 thinks.

To be afraid or to catch de apportunity to flow.

stay well.

2011/10/2 Joe Pirone <drjmpirone@xxxxxxx <mailto:drjmpirone%40mac.com> >

**

There are many paths to the Path, may we all respect the one's that are

not

ours so long as they resonate to Transpersonal Truth and are not caught

in

personal truth. drj

On Oct 2, 2011, at 11:57 AM, luis moreira wrote:

Hello.

Finnaly, someone who talks, seriously!...

Maybe, we all, find a way to catch the truth. Maybe.

If we see all our life, like an apportunity for that, maybe, maybe

wern't

so

certainly of our personall point of view, byt, only, see an apportunity

to

share, our all experiences.

Sorry for my english, but, I think, your all understand me.

Thank you.

2011/10/1 anni <annimukkala@xxxxxxxx <mailto:annimukkala%40yahoo.ca> >

**

Regarding your response to Vinay (which is included below), Sadhana

Kay,

It seems that the topic has veered. We may all perhaps agree that
constellation work is underpinned by deep spiritual connectedness but

I

wonder if promoting a single kind of spiritual philosophy is in the

best

interests of CT? I could easily expound my own particular spiritual
practices and so could any one of us. However, Kay, your post feels a

bit

like a preacher telling his flock to do his bidding. I would

acknowledge

that there might be a place here to share the diversity of spiritual

growth

but that it would require a topical introduction and an open format to
encourage thinking toward the broader view and not the more limited

view.

I am not choosing to voice my own thoughts at this point on meditation

or

contemplation or prayer. Your views on spiritual growth may or may not

be a

valid underpinning for constellation work but to discuss them, I think

that

a topic ought to be stated in the topic line and that your particular

views

need to be presented as your personal opinions. I may or may not have

the

same understanding about all constellation work that you do. You stand

in

this post, it appears to me, in a place that looks down on the

community

gathered here at CT to preach to us how we ought to see things. My
perspective is often quite different than your perspective or that of

others

here. And that is perfect. We walk in unique slippers. Your size may

not

fit

me.

Trusting that all words we share here on CT are grounded in the power

of

love which enlightens. Anni

--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> , Kay Needham
<familyconstellationinfo@...> wrote:

Hello Vinay and others interested in this thread,
There is something about all systemic work that is worth

understanding

and is sometimes not seen. That is, that every system is a living

system

that grows via

1.Â Feeding
2.Â Excreting
The actions of taking in and taking out are essential for growth.
Human beings are also what we refer to as "a dissipative system."
As facilitators we tend to focus on "feeding" and often forget

"excreting."

It is essential for "waste" to move out of a living system also.
Waste is the past.
Waste is the mind.
If we are also feeding with mind we are adding to the waste.
Techniques and meditations that give a taste of no mind are needed to

help clients release the past. Active meditations designed by Osho

where

designed for this reason to compliment all forms of therapy working

with

trauma. To provide support for body mind opening. These meditations

work

very well, and are very scientific in their approach. They are

designed

to

assist meditation as a tool for transformation.

www.osho.com
Â
Kind regards
Sadhana
Â
Â
Â
Â
Â

________________________________
From: Steve Vinay Gunther <spirited@...>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: epigenetics and trauma: And what can

we

do to aleviate this?????

Â

Hi folks

This discussion interests me in terms of understanding something I

have

have quite worked out.

In my constellation work I very rarely hear back that someone left it

in

some way that didnt work for them. The exception was something that

happened

when I worked with some aboriginal students in a Masters of Indiginous
studies and Trauma Healing, at a local Uni. I worked with the class on

a

number of occasions, using both Gestalt and constellations work.

Everything

went really well - the class really appreciated the approaches, and

the

therapeutic work was particularly poignant. When it came to doing the
constellation work with them, it seemed perfect. Within a cultural

frame,

they could of course immediately recognise the nature of the work, and

they

took to it readily. Because of the extremely complex intergenerational
trauma that has resulted from government policy (removing children

from

their families), the constellation work seemed to be highly effective

in

being able to embrace the largeness of the trauma, and work with it.

So, everyone was pleased, moved, and reported positively.

Because of the nature of the course, the subject of trauma was

something

they were familiar with, and the coordinator of the course spent time

with

them talking about it, looking at healing modalities etc. However,

what

happened afterward the constellation work I did with them is that over

the

course of a number of months, a number of people in the course started

to

really act out in quite destructive ways. ALthough none of the

students

held

a negative impression of the constellation work, the coordinator

suspected

that it was the trigger for a flood of trauma which was too much, and

hence

the acting out. As a result, I did not get a chance to go back and

continue

the work or do any followup.

It seems that the resources of the course, and the individuals, were

not

enough to handle what got opened up, even though within the

constellations

themselves it appeared a great deal of healing took place. I had

recommended

followup work, both individual and collective, but the resources of

the

uni

and the structure of the course were such that that level of work was

not

available.

I continue to wonder about that experience, and what to learn from

it.

Reading this thread makes me think that this was a situation where the
PTSD/complex trauma was bigger than what the course, or I could offer.

It

makes me wonder about what I could have done differently, or whether

theres

instances where I need to somehow slow the constellation down, so not

too

much gets opened up. This is a strange thought, as I generally just

have

a

sense of serviing the field in front of me, as it opens up, in its own
rhythm.

Interested in people's comments.

Vinay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
*Luís Viegas Moreira*<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lu

ís-Viegas-Moreira/169008393550>

*tlm*. 919 744 249 *** *Skype:* luismvm1* * Messenger:*

*luismvm@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:%2Aluismvm%40live.com.pt>

*
*
<http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com>*
*o Despertar do «EU» <http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com> - **
Actividades <http://actividadesodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Classes

de VOZ <http://classesdevozodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Constelações

Familiares <http://constelacoesfamiliaresodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/>

-

Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/LuisViegasMoreira> *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

--
*Luís Viegas Moreira*<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lu

ís-Viegas-Moreira/169008393550>

*tlm*. 919 744 249 *** *Skype:* luismvm1* * Messenger:*

*luismvm@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:%2Aluismvm%40live.com.pt>

*
*
<http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com>*
*o Despertar do «EU» <http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com> - **
Actividades <http://actividadesodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Classes

de VOZ <http://classesdevozodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-**

**Constelações

Familiares <http://constelacoesfamiliaresodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> -
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/LuisViegasMoreira> *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

--
*Luís Viegas
Moreira*<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Luís-Viegas-Moreira/169008393550>

*tlm*. 919 744 249 *** *Skype:* luismvm1* * Messenger:* *luismvm@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:%2Aluismvm%40live.com.pt>
*
*
<http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com>*
*o Despertar do «EU» <http://www.odespertardoeu.blogspot.com> - **
Actividades <http://actividadesodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-** **Classes
de VOZ <http://classesdevozodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> **-** **Constelações
Familiares <http://constelacoesfamiliaresodespertardoeu.blogspot.com/> -
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/LuisViegasMoreira> *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Back to top <>

Reply to
<mailto:luismvm@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3Asand%2Cwaves%2Chint>
sender | Reply to
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=%20Re%3A%20new%20topic%20line%20please%20Re%3A%20epigenetics%20and%20trauma%3Asand%2Cwaves%2Chint>
group | Reply
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxc2Y2ZmxnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=7863>
via web post
Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/7772;_ylc=X3oDMTM1b3BqbWdhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzc4NjMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4MwR0cGNJZAM3Nzcy>
(52)

Recent Activity

· 6

New Members
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMDlqMmU2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMTc3NTM1ODM-?o=6>

Visit Your Group
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk;_ylc=X3oDMTJlY3F0Z3JqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->

Biz Resources

Y! Small Business
<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ohngfcu/M=493064.14543952.14365456.8674578/D=grphealth/S=1705062215:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1317760783/L=3a24fbee-eeb8-11e0-a0e7-e7f659db93a0/B=g3AfBUoGYv4-/J=1317753583822718/K=HhaoGxR4UubfYjUKk2xYtg/A=4025321/R=0/SIG=12a352npd/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index>

Articles, tools,

forms, and more.

Yahoo! Health

Heartburn or Worse
<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15odor29a/M=493064.14543970.14365495.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705062215:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1317760783/L=3a24fbee-eeb8-11e0-a0e7-e7f659db93a0/B=gXAfBUoGYv4-/J=1317753583822718/K=HhaoGxR4UubfYjUKk2xYtg/A=5191947/R=0/SIG=13k5hfu0i/*http:/health.yahoo.com/gerd-overview/gastroesophageal-reflux-disease-gerd-topic-overview/healthwise--hw99179.html>

What symptoms

are most serious?

Meditation and

Lovingkindness
<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ou24ir9/M=493064.14543940.14365442.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705062215:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1317760783/L=3a24fbee-eeb8-11e0-a0e7-e7f659db93a0/B=gnAfBUoGYv4-/J=1317753583822718/K=HhaoGxR4UubfYjUKk2xYtg/A=5191951/R=0/SIG=11iiaadso/*http:/new.groups.yahoo.com/giftoflovingkindness>

A Yahoo! Group

to share and learn.

Need to Reply?

Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily
Digest.

Create New Topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZnNpazQzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->
| Visit Your Group on the Web
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk;_ylc=X3oDMTJjcmQ4OXMwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMTc3NTM1ODM->

Messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYXBxZzBtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzc1MzU4Mw-->

MARKETPLACE

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get
the Yahoo! Toolbar now.
<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15rlbv70t/M=493064.14543979.14562481.13298430/D=grphealth/S=1705062215:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1317760783/L=3a24fbee-eeb8-11e0-a0e7-e7f659db93a0/B=fnAfBUoGYv4-/J=1317753583822718/K=HhaoGxR4UubfYjUKk2xYtg/A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http:/us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj>

<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbDZoNGhqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzE3NzUzNTgz>
Yahoo! Groups
Change settings via the Web
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmamdya2k3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEzMTc3NTM1ODM->
(Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual
<mailto:ConstellationTalk-normal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Indiviual%20Email>
| Switch format to Traditional
<mailto:ConstellationTalk-traditional@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>

Visit Your Group
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc2x2MjBoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMzE3NzUzNTgz>
| Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> |
Unsubscribe
<mailto:ConstellationTalk-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Unsubscribe>

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359715/grpId=9008287/grpspId=1705062215/msgId=1881/stime=1317753583/nc1=4025321/nc2=5191947/nc3=5191951>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Follow-Ups:
- Re: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1881
  - From: Joe Pirone

References:
- [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1881
  - From: gary stuart

Re: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1881

Other related posts: