Great Barbara and I agree...I hope people didn't think I was Negating
anyone's pain and suffering which is also part of the wheel to facilitate
change etc.I see Spirit Mind through the prism of Constellation work as a
process seeking NEWNESS and REGENERATION into perpetuity. It seems its
ultimate goal to move forward and rediscover itself at all cost. Sometimes
death itself is inconsequential to the movement into eternity.. Thanks for
the clarification.
Namaste Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barbara Eggenberger
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:54 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: [constellation talk] Eating the whole pie
Hi Gary,
If we are to exclude nothing then possibly judging and rejecting also need a
place. How dull it would be to have a really bad guy that no one was
against. The judgment against Bush has opened the way to Obama. Seasons come
and seasons go. It is all grist for the mill. Judge away, I say. Bring some
juice into the play. By the way, it might be fun to count your own judgments
in this post. As soon as a discernment has been made about what is good and
what is bad, judgment has been made. I always felt that Bush was going to be
a catalyst for change but that didn't keep me from feeling viscerally
disgusted with him time and again. Poor George Bush. It's hard to play the
bad guy. It's human to hurt and be angry and to reject that which is hurting
us and those we love. It is all okay. If we get rid of all the judgment, (as
if we could) who knows what rabbits might take its place.
All the best,
Barb
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: " gary stuart" <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Gary%40CHIfield.com> >
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:39:14
To: <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] A Zulu Shaman's Poem to Barack Obama
Dear Chris and All,
Everything you pointed out is great and very insightful..The person you
referred to is David Icke not David Dick. We won't go into Freudian slips..
The way I understand the "non-exclusion clause/ concept" is in Bigger terms.
Humans didn't invent the wheel of Duality light/dark, perpetrator/victim,
good bad perceptions etc..We collectively live in this wheel and EVERYONE
has a place an purpose in this Shakespearian Drama called life..which
includes Death and many other things. I personally see our roles as FC
facilitators is to NOT to judge this Wheel with societal/morality codes
ever. We didn't invent this wheel but are at the affect of its complicated
and simple dynamics. This may be hard for some and it can be a case by case
basis. 2 things come to mind. in America we have a National Park called
Yellowstone in Wyoming. In 1930's to protect tourists they killed all the
predatory wolves. 70 years later after many tourists passed safely through
to enjoy the wonders of nature and Deer everywhere the park was
disintegrating. NO beavers, no birds, No Aspens & Cottonwood Trees, barren
hill sides.yet outside the national park Beauty and harmony prevailed? Why
could this be so? So some progressive thinkers RE-INTRODUCED 100 Wolves to
Yellowstone Park a few years ago..Viola they killed off the excessive deer
and in the carcasses of their bones Aspens and Cottonwoods grew, Beavers
came back to the rivers their Dams brought Birds back to the air and the
whole park regenerated in less than 3 years. The Eco-Harmony was restored by
"allowing" a predatory beast back into the ecosystem. Hummmm. What can we
learn here..Death and destruction happens either way. feeding and breeding
stresses the ecosystem creating Death? "Alleged Predators/Perpetrators" have
a place in life equal to those who comfortable breed themselves to
extinction? They are in and part of the same wheel of life that we are.Sure
we kill for ideology and profit. I have a hard time with this too..What
happened after Hitler? The state of Israel? The American Baby-boom 78
million children born by soldiers from 1945-1965? Did life Stop, NO? Did
Consciousness Change, Yes etc..
I use these examples from a Systemic point of view to show Everything has a
place and Purpose bigger than we little minded humans can sometime
comprehend. Bert more than anyone has show us through his glimpse to a
larger reality What really IS. I see our biggest challenge as FC's is to
Stay small, humble, neutral and make the best choice for the client..Let's
never forget. DEATH strengthens LIFE..AND Life goes on regardless.
Blessings to the Whole Planet as we crawl out of the BUSHES of despair into
a NEW Day of equality and inclusion! Ironically it took a certain BUSH to
get us to this place?!?!?!?!? Was that his REAL Purpose? Hummm, The Wheel
moves forward, yet again! Inner Peace and Love, Gary Stuart
Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Gary%40Chifield.com>
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Walsh
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:47 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] A Zulu Shaman's Poem to Barack Obama
Dear Dan
Thank you for highlighting this. I thought the poem seemed a bit extreme
with highly charged statements with no evidence given some pseudo
credibility by the author claiming to be a shaman.
You raise a very interesting point for me when you say:
" Within the field of Constellations, we are charged to include everyone
and everything exactly as it is. In our personal lives, we cannot survive if
we ingest anything and everyone."
In constellation work I find there are a number of slogans similar to:
"include everyone"
like
"You need to take your parents fully as they are"
"To forgive is arrogant"
Some take these slogans as biblical and the end of the discussion. In my
opinion that is a form of constellation fundamentalism. Others see these
slogans as a starting point for further reflection. Hunter Beaumont has even
gone further and referred to them as being like traditional Zen Koans that
contain inherent contradictions within them, the contemplation of which can
lead to much deeper realisations.
Now let's look at the slogan "include everyone" . That slogan indeed does
create further questions and considerations.
e.g. Does this mean we tolerate all behaviours and belief systems such as
those of David Dicke? What about genuine perpetrators like Mugabe or
Milosevic or the violent and sexually abusive father? It is easy to give
trite answers from "constellation bible class" but when you have one of the
victims of these atrocities where the pain is raw and palpable sitting right
in front of you, those answers suddenly seem pathetically inappropriate.
So clearly this is an opportunity to deepen our understanding. Sometimes it
is useful to simply understand that giving someone like Mugabe a respectful
and compassionate place of understanding in our hearts does NOT mean we have
to include him in such a way that he can continue to perpetrate all sorts of
misery on other people. It does not mean we have to let him join our local
refugee support group if we believe he will do a lot of harm there. As we
reflect in this way we make discernments that deepen our understanding.
In regard to this slogan of "include everyone" people seem to get quite
confused. They forget that in a family an abusive member can physically
excluded for a while or even life for the safety of others. There does not
have to be an entanglement if that person is given a good a place in your
heart.
They forget that organisations which are systems constructed by humans are
different to families which are naturally occurring systems that we are born
into. It is useful to reflect that cultural groups like nationality are
something in between. People forget that you really can't leave your family
EVER. That is your family and that is that. However we join and leave
organisations all the time. So the principles about "exclusion" reflect that
substantial difference in these two different types of systems. People leave
organisational systems without someone else having to represent them. People
can even be evicted from organisations without someone having to represent
them if it is done appropriately.
That is a fundamental point that is so often glossed over and misunderstood
in spite of the fact that it has been stated clearly many times and despite
the fact that the rationale and evidence for it is extremely clear. So I ask
myself why is this so? Have many constellation practitioners really not
resolved their own issues of exclusion within their own families or perhaps
the blind spot emerges from the very difficult time of adolescence where
peer groups can be quite cruel and exclusion is particularly painful? I
don't know the answer but there has to be some kind of explanation for why
some people are particularly fundamentalist about this particular slogan.
So let's use slogans as short cuts to help us learn and remember salient
points but let us not let them become the basis of a form of fundamentalism
but rather the springboards from which we can jump into deeper waters of
compassion and understanding.
hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
webpage: <http://www.cwalsh.com.au> www.cwalsh.com.au
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dan Booth Cohen
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 2:35 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] A Zulu Shaman's Poem to Barack Obama
Dear Theresa -
During the course of my doctoral research, I encountered the writings of
Credo Mutwa. He is affiliated personally and professionally with David
Icke. See http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/.
<http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/>
<http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/>
<http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/>
David Icke has no credibility for me. I perceive him as a fraud and
huckster of the worst kind, someone who exploits people's worst fears and
darkest images for his personal financial enrichment.
Within the field of Constellations, we are charged to include everyone and
everything exactly as it is. In our personal lives, we cannot survive if we
ingest anything and everyone. I consider David Icke to be a disseminator of
poisonous ideas and images, whom I exclude from taking in as I do spoiled
food and unsanitary water.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of theresa.guerra
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:52 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] A Zulu Shaman's Poem to Barack Obama
Dan and Angelika,
I was especially moved by both your contributions to the forum. A
common uncomfortable theme is braving the incredible consciousness of
pain it takes to walk in the perpetrator's shoes when it feels only
right and natural to put on the shoes of the victim.
And then the theme of disloyalty to one's tribe or family, perhaps
even nation or race. Along those lines, a friend happened to forward
to me this poem about President-Elect Obama written by a Zulu shaman.
Since Bert Hellinger spent so much of his life as a Catholic
missionary priest with the Zulu in South Africa, I felt it appropriate
to post it here because the systemic theme of disloyalty to tribe
and/or race is evident.
Theresa
------------------------------------
Vusamazulu Credo Mutwa, born on 21 July 1921 in KwaZulu-Natal, South
Africa is a Zulu Sangoma (traditional healer) and High Sanusi. He is
well known and respected for his work in nature conservation, as an
author of ground breaking books on African mythology and spiritual
beliefs. Some of his work has led to him being seen as an outcast by
fellow sangoma's or traditional healers and even the larger African
community in South Africa.
-----------------------------------------
An actor walks upon the floodlit stage of life
wearing a mask of an angel beneath a demon's gown.
Pretence smiles upon the crowded hall of life
holding out hope as bright as it is false.
Son of a woman in whose veins flows the blood
of ancient Ireland and dark Africa's plains.
You are Obama, nick-named the standing king
You are Barack, oh, son born to deceive.
The suffering hordes of Africa look up to you,
See a black saviour where nought but a Judas strides.
An entrapper of nations, bringer of dismal war
Behind the robes and the nylon wings of hope
Oh, may those who look upon you, see you as you are.
May those who hope in you behold you as you be
A prince deceitful to bring down Africa's shrines
A siren who leads Africa's ships onto rocks of obliteration.
Your rule my lord will not be one of peace
Your reign my king will not be one of smiles
Even as we speak in caves both dark and dank
Enraged fanatics plot your dark demise
They will put around your head a bloodwet martyr's crown.
Oh black Kennedy following the one before
May God forgive thee and thy fiery spouse
As you walk in silence from the stage of life
Barack Obama, blessed son, Oh standing king.
------Credo Mutwa
http://credomutwa. ;<http://credomutwa.com/> com/
http://www.davidick ;<http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/18156/72/>
e.com/content/view/18156/72/
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