Dear Sheila and friends
Sheila, thank you for your opinion too which i appreciate and learn from
also. Thank you.
Yes, am definitely grateful to Chris for initiating Constellation talk and
it is easy to see that he has put his heart and soul into it. Yes, CT is his
baby and he makes the final decision and that is naturally clear for me too.
My sharing of my opinion does not set the rule.
Agreeing to disagree is something i have mastered living with 10 siblings
and later having a partner from a different culture has helped too.
This gift of learning from each other is a beautiful process. Thank you.
Please allow me to share the words of Albert Einstein and the mystical poet
Rumi.
"Human beings are a part of a whole called by us the "Universe," a part
limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and
feelings, as something seperated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of
consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to
our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task
must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circles of
compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in it's
beauty"... ... ... by Albert Einstein.
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field.
I will meet you there"... ... ... by Rumi.
in beauty with compassion towards the light
Anutosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "sheila saunders" <peacefulcentre@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:18 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Recent conversation
Thanks, Alemka, Sneh, Anutosh and others that have contributed to this
thread.
Joining CT at the very beginning, I was willing to accept the guidelines as
Chris set them forth, and I am willing to accept the decision he has made
about moderating as well. These guidelines are clearly stated, and if a post
is held up, Chris said he will let that person know and then it can be
modified to comply with the guidelines, resubmitted and sent through. I'm OK
with this. I trust Chris' judgment and I trust that anyone transgressing the
guidelines can just fix their post and resubmit it. Chris owns the talk
group and has nurtured it into a very informative, productive, educational
forum. If he questions a post, he can access his own resources to check out
his concern. This is within his perogative and I feel comfortable that he
will use this tool with his customary diplomacy.
I don't agree with Alemka's statement that there is any "our international
constellators' associations". I know there are about 500 subscribers to
Constellation Talk and about 100 members of ISCA. There is some overlap but
I have no idea how much. People belong to CT for many and varied reasons:
some are observers, some interested lay people, some professionals, some
facilitators, likely some "spies" of some sort, who knows? Subscribers read
the posts, or not; some never or rarely send a post. It is only an
assumption that a subscriber of a talk group (and there are several online
now) will choose to be be a member of an association. Anyone interested in
either can belong, accept the responsibilities of belonging and enjoy the
benefits.
These issues are evoking strong feelings, with cultural implications and
opportunities for misunderstandings. I appreciate being pushed to identify
my own viewpoint and express it as best I can, altho not nearly as
eloquently as many I've read in this group.
All the best, sheila
Sheila Saunders, RN, LMFT
www.systemicfamilysolutions.com
PO Box 1011 Weaverville, North Carolina 28787
828-273-5015
"When we have passed a certain age, the soul of the child we were and the
souls of the dead from whom we have sprung come to lavish on us their riches
and their spells." -Marcel Proust (In Search of Lost Time)
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> From: alemka1@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:45:05 -0800> Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Recent conversation> > Dear Sheila,> I appreciate your point of view. > > Reading your latest post it came as a surprise to me that new subscribers to CT are being moderated and that "tabs are being kept " on all entries in general. I did not know about it. I was equally surprised recently to find out that some posts just don't "make it" without anyone on the forum finding out about it.> > You seem to be very supportive of it in saying "It also will give any one of us a second chance to restate ourselves within the guidelines we have all accepted by joining." > > It would be good to know the rules and how they are being applied (like the information that you have given us) in addition to the listings of the guidelines Chris posts regularly, so we can all keep making an informed decision whether we still indeed accept it.> > My preference is taking personal responsibility for what I say and do, and allowing others to do the same over external censorship, especially when it relies on a judgment of one person only. Regardless of best intentions, we all make mistakes, and we are all human. Including the moderator. Sometimes best learnings come from our mistakes. I'd like to keep the right to mine.> > And, yes, I would like to be able to discus some issues regarding our international constellators' associations on this forum. I find it exciting and fail to see how it would hurt the forum, or the association, or serve any self interest, or promote any individual over other. The two entities are clearly different, fulfilling different functions and roles, but having a big overlap, I believe, too in their desire to work towards the advancement of constellation work in general. So, I find the hard and fast rule of "no mixing" regrettable and unnecessary. (especially in the light of Hellinger Sciencia being debated ad nauseum on this forum frequently in the last year or so- what is that if not an organizational issue?)> > But, I understand this is "not negotiable" and am not going to waste my breath here on discussing the wisdom of Chris's moderation. He has got every right to moderate his forum in whichever way he sees fit. And all of us have the freedom to judge for ourselves and decide whether we like it or not.> > All the best> > Alemka> www.HarmonyInHumanSystems.com > > > --- On Sat, 12/13/08, sheila saunders <peacefulcentre@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:> > > From: sheila saunders <peacefulcentre@xxxxxxxxxxx>> Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Recent conversation> To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 2:04 AM> > Chris, > > I don't envy you your role as moderator of the group. Very challenging job. > > Taking part in the development of ISCA and it's website, I have been able (mostly) to follow the recent conversation, but I'm sure it's not as clear to others. There seems to be varying levels of awareness about ISCA (International Systemic Constellation Association) , although there have been posts relating to it over the past year and a half. I hope I am not out of line by referring those interested to http://www.isca- network.org/ Default.aspx? pageId=217009 for a greater opportunity to become familiar with ISCA. This also will provide access to further information and the chance to join the association and have access to the "Member's blog" that has been referred to recently. > > I also notice the additional function that you are taking on by moderating new subscribers and keeping tabs on all entries in general. This may very well prevent the start of conversations that tend to derail rather than illuminate, and interrupt those which can cause unnecessary division and confusion. It also will give any one of us a second chance to restate ourselves within the guidelines we have all accepted by joining. We all get triggered by something, and this moderation provides us a "Whoa, Nellie!" when our emotions say "Go, baby, go!" And I like that this is done "message by message" rather than the other possibility of suspension; I believe the group is strengthened by the contribution of all members, even those who push the envelope a bit. I'm glad for this new function which preserves all members intact, while protecting each of us and the group as a whole from unnecessary brouhaha.> > With appreciation to you, Chris. Thanks, sheila> > To: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. comFrom: chrisjwalsh@ optusnet. com.auDate: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:37:43 +1100Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] ISCA blog> > Thankyou Chris for pointing this out. There is indeed a confusion of roles regarding the mandate and function ofConstellation Talk here. So I will use this opportunity to clarify.As you correctly point out the Constellation Talk discussion on this topicof the ISCA article needs to be redirected it to the members blog on theISCA website. I understand Max's desire to discuss the article on the forum;the general topic is appropriate for discussion, but it's best to startright up front identifying the distinction between the 2 sites. Personally I unequivocally agree that Bert Hellinger has a crucial andpivotal role in the development of constellation work which clearly shouldbe recognised. If people want to see the article Max has been talking aboutit is at<http://www.isca- network.org/ IntroFoundations SystemicConstell ations>http://www.isca- network.org/ IntroFoundations SystemicConstell ations .However, as the discussion has migrated a bit into discussion> of theorganization and development of ISCA - namely in the content and structureof the webpage and the processes of feedback - it does not fit within theguidelines of CT as they were established at the beginning of the group 5years ago. As everyone knows, as moderator of the group, I remind people of thoseguidelines from time to time, and this has effectively protected the healthyfunctioning of the group. The particular guideline below has been invoked inthe past and is relevant here again.5. Do not try to use forum to organise or promote events or activities.Although it is reasonable to refer to them in the course of conversation. This rule supports ConstellationTalk as a conversational forum. It protectsthe group from too many irrelevant emails as well as from politicalposturing and power plays. There is some flexibility as indicated by guideline 4:4. To maintain our integrity especially when talking about ourselvesSelf promotion, including promotion> of associates and friends, should beboth honest and modest in both amount and style. That is so people are free to mention new websites etc. without turning itinto an advertising forum.That being said, here is a brief synopsis of the current situation of theISCA website: It has been formed and developed by a team of hard working, well recognisedconstella tion practitioners from around the world. Acknowledgements can befound here: <http://www.isca- network.org/ Acknowledgements>http://www.isca- network.org/ Acknowledgements The current website is the "rough and ready" one. We decided to launch it atthis stage so we could gather the funds needed for further development. Sofar we have close to 100 paid up members. We are already working on phasetwo which will have much more capacity for interactivity and participationby members in article development. At the beginning, for content to be developed a lead had to be taken.Accordingly we have developed the> article Max is referring to. This involvedan extensive process of collaboration and review by members of thecommittee, followed by review by the board, before being published on thewebsite. These articles will be further edited and developed as time goeson, with feedback from members. And new articles and resources, such astraining exercises, will be posted on the website. As Max has alluded to, even now there is a place for members to engage andinteract on the site - the member blog. Finally I reiterate that organisation, feedback and editing of the ISCA sitehas its place on the ISCA site itself, rather than through this forum. Cheers,Chris Walsh Melbourne, Australiawebpage: <http://www.cwalsh. com.au> www.cwalsh.com. auFrom: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com]
