Dear Steve,
A post well worth pondering.Group caroms of whatever source are always worth
the ponder.Thanks joseph
Enneapsychodramatics
Dr.Joseph M. Pirone 2018033080
On Monday, January 21, 2008, at 04:22PM, "Steve Vinay Gunther"
<chief@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I want to say both in response to Alison's beautiful post, and to all
else who have contributed on this thread, how much I appreciate the
deep reflectiveness and therefore both intelligent and heartfelt
exchanges which take place on this list. I enjoy, I learn, and am
stimulated to further reflection myself.
Process-wise I am in agreeance with just about everything written in
this thread. Content-wise, I am missing some kind of response to
whatever gems Tom threw out. They do indeed require quite a lot of
washing in the clear water of perspective. I think this group has
that ability. So given there has been a lot of clarifying discussion
regarding the nature of Tom's post and its effects and its place in
our process (personal and collective), perhaps we can look with some
clarity at whatever shadows might be worthy of examination.
I am interested in talking about Bert's role perhaps at a deeper
level than might normally be the case. We all (if I can claim the
inclusive word) have respect for Bert, of course. Many have love for
him. In one way, we are here talking because of him. His words, his
ideas, his methods have touched us all deeply, and resulted in much
healing. It is appropriate to be grateful, humble, and to continue to
learn what we can from him. His teachings evolve, in some ways past
us. I still prefer to practice constellation work in a way which
draws from how he practiced 10 years ago, rather than how he
practices now...whilst being fascinated with where is is taking it.
So Bert. As one of the facilitators said to me in Kloster Bernreid,
The right amount of time for Bert at the training session is about a
day. I think there is significance in that - his place, honoured,
important, but not primary any more. He is opinionated, headstrong
and thereby takes a lot of digestion. He is no longer the sole
artibter of what is constellation work, yet he does continue to
influence the field.
This all seems like a healthy evolution. And yet of course there are
always shadows, the places we dont want to look at. I am a gestalst
therapist, and so its very much the same with Fritz Perls. He was a
genius, like Bert. He was also very blind in certain ways. And his
practical obsession with sex with clients is now considered beyond
the pale. It took Gestalt therapy many years to really digest his
influence, take his ideas, and leave behind what was not so healthy.
For many years after Fritz therapists/trainers saw nothing wrong in
having sex with clients, and chain smoking.
The evolution is already taking place beyond Bert, and his bad habits
arre of a different order. But inevitably, whatever qualities he
brings are going to be both our springboard as well as our weak place
(at least as unreflected).
Well, unlike Tom, I have got this far without really pointing much to
the holes of Bert himself. I am more interesetd in pausing at this
point to see what other people think, and how we can begin discussing
these issues with respect.
Vinay
PS, I am not Indian-descent... in fact Jewish. Vinay is my chosen
name, with me as part of my lifelong spiritual path.
--
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Perceive all conflicts as patterns of energy seeking a harmonious
balance in a whole."
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* GESTALT training in the Northern Rivers:
http://www.gestalt.org.au
* GANZ (Gestalt Australia And New Zealand):
http://www.ganz.org.au
* Prout - an alternative socio-economic vision:
http://www.prout.org
* Follow your life-dream - excellent support from Barbara Sher:
http://www.barbarasher.com
* Health and Healing in Cebu:
http://www.amwellness.org
* Online Gestalt course:
http://www.zurinstitute.com/gestaltcourse.html
