fledling scholars often put things off...ots okay..please be sure to do well on
exams I will give you an Ip and help you construct over break best drj
Dear Max, thanks for a rich reflection on the field and each soul's relation
to it.Once again, presence to awareness and the authenticity thereby engendered
appears the real orchestrator of which constellator,seeker,reps, and attendees
are interactive chords. Your use of the genagram and the precise use of
language is very helpful. drjmpirone@xxxxxxx
On Monday, December 04, 2006, at 02:14PM, "Max Dauskardt"
<max@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Ed et al.,
your assessment of the facilitator's performance you described below:
"the previous case may just be an example of a facilitator?s insecurity"
requires no further comment, apart from assuming, that insecurity would
manifest regardless of the interview procedure.
Of course you are right in assuming, how a seeker presents may be different
from moment to moment or situation;
putting an emphasis on the 'issue' may just as well lead to confusion rather
than clarification, regardless of the timing of the interview.
you are wondering:
"Wouldn?t the advance interview, ..., have the effect of marrying the client
(and facilitator) to a prior ?story? rather than the one that is alive for
them at that moment?"
Clearly no, provided the interview is conducted as a fact -genogram- finding
one, not a 'story reinforcing' one.
When I conduct an advance interview, only after the genogram is done do I ask:
"ín one word,why do you want to do a constellation?" not using the term
'issue', discouraging the telling of a story, letting the seeker know the
answer to the 'why'-qustion serves to get an idea about how to start the
constellation on the day, letting her know, thereafter it is always a
journey into the unknown. No story to get possibly married to.
You furthermore ask:
"Similarly, if clients are interviewed ahead of time,
doesn?t that also delimit the ability of the field to drive the
facilitator?s choice of whom to work with?"
As stated before, the construction of the genogram is in effect a bringing
into consciousness the existence of the field, thus strengthening it, rather
than delimiting it. It would be rather delusive to even consider a
constellator being able to 'outfox' the field.
It is the greater field in the first place that brings constellator and
client/seeker together; after the interview both are free to discontinue or
postpone the collaboration anyway.
Let me state clearly, I use both the advance and in-group interview timing
and employ either method as 'indicated' by the field without considering
one as absolutely superior.
As a matter of principle I regard the advance method as safer particularly
for budding constellators, as it provides the timespan to become aware of
own transference/projection potential in regards to a specific family field
and deal with it in ones own time. (kind of unfair for the group to pay for
that)
All best,
Max
On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 09:34:43 -0500, "Ed Levy" <levye@xxxxxxx> wrote :
Dear Max et al.,
I would like to share an experience I had as a representative in a
constellation where the facilitator had conducted an interview with the
client prior to the workshop. The client was a gay man, and I was
representing a family member. I don?t remember all of the details of the
constellation anymore, as it was some years ago, but I do remember that it
seemed apparent to me and others that the facilitator was in a tremendous
hurry to get the client to bow to his father, and had a plan to bring him to
the movement ?prescribed? for that situation. I felt alarmed by the
realization that the resolution came out of the facilitator?s needs, not the
client?s. (In fact, it didn?t really feel resolved at all.) Several people
noted the heavy presence in the room not of the field, but of a concept
about ?what one does in a situation like this.?
Related to this, and maybe the crux of the matter for me (since the previous
case may just be an example of a facilitator?s insecurity), is that the
issues that people think they must deal with, and feel obliged to summon up
from their repertoire of troubles when face to face with a therapist or
someone in a similar role, are often different from what comes up when they
raise their hand to work or are called upon in workshop. Wouldn?t the
advance interview, in those cases, have the effect of marrying the client
(and facilitator) to a prior ?story? rather than the one that is alive for
them at that moment? Similarly, if clients are interviewed ahead of time,
doesn?t that also delimit the ability of the field to drive the
facilitator?s choice of whom to work with? Would welcome any comments on
this.
Ed Levy
Hortonville, N.Y.
most fascinating thread started by Patricia;
interesting it has developed a slant focussed on:
concealment, security, confidentiality,..
Regardless of the degree of 'openess' a constellation begins with
isn't the focus always on "bringing to light"?
Isn't that the reason we are doing the work?
Some advantages I see in doing the interview in advance are:
-establishing a field of trust between constellator and seeker/client
with an awareness for the potential of transference/countertransference,
giving the constellator time to 'neutralise' own issues if need be,
getting a clear sense of the state of readiness of the seeker to work;
-in constructing the seeker's genogram during the interview
the constellation already begins, simply by symbolically gathering ALL the
members of her family on one sheet of paper, frequently opening the
awareness of the seeker to be a member of this family, thus truly entering
the constellation from a systemic point of awareness rather an individual
"poor me" one.
-group time is more precious than individual time;
the group's energy level is better served by more 'break time'
rather than more 'interview time'.
-not knowing the story, but knowing who is represented puts the holding
circle in a state of active, phenomenological observing which is conducive
for the field to reveal itself;
Regardless of how much information the constellator has in advance, once
started, a constellation is always a journey into the unknown and becomes as
Margreet puts it:"a shared experience for all of us"
fortunately frequently bringing something to light.
Max
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:49:21 +0100, "Margreet Mossel"
<margreetmossel@ <mailto:margreetmossel%40wish.net> wish.net> wrote :
yahoogroups.com
Dear Chris
I fully agree with you, that is why people who ask me if there will be
clients of them at the workshop usually withdraw and wait for a next
workshop. If they don?t come with that option themselves I suggest it or I
offer them a private session to start with.
Love
Margreet
_____
Van: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com] Namens Chris Walsh
Verzonden: donderdag 30 november 2006 12:01yahoogroups.com
Aan: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [ConstellationTalk] client's interview out of group'sclient's
presence
Dear Margreet,
I wonder how effective a private interview would be in protecting a
confidentiality as in the case of the doctor who is worried about hisvery
patients being at the workshop. Often the constellation itself can make
sensitive issues like sexual abuse very transparent. I would be worriedthat
a private interview could offer a client a false sense of security.presence
However I do see how it could work with an organisational constellation if
the rest of the participants do not know which organisation the client is
from.
hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
My Website: www.cwalsh.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Margreet Mossel
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] client's interview out of group's
helpful
Dear Patricia (and all colleagues)
I have just returned from an interesting trip to Poland and I am happy to
answer your question in my Dutch-English!
In organisational constellations I find that this method can be very
to protect the safety and privacy of an organisation, it can be veryopen.
damaging if information about an organisational question is out in the
I
For family constellations I find it hardly ever necessary to work covered.
can imagine that a well known colleague wants to look at something anddoes
not want it to be open. Or sometimes a doctor comes to a workshop and heor
she wants to know if there are patients of him on the list ofparticipants.
But usually he then chooses to come to another workshop to protect his orhim/her
her privacy.
So in general I work with clients of whom I do not (want to) know anything
in advance. In resonating with the field, I always invite the client in a
workshop to open up to the system so that the real question can find
and us. This way I can be centred and in tune with whatever comes up. Allnot
the 'work' that we do, on the chair or in the constellation, is a shared
experience for all of us. At the end of a workshop often someone who has
done a constellation herself mentions that the work that I did withsomeone
else has given so much insight that it is enough already. So I don't wantto
withhold anyone this experience. And most family issues are universal, wekeep
can all relate to them one way or another. And for the part that I could
call the ritual of a constellation, it is sometimes even stronger if it is
witnessed (in the open) by other people - and then forget about it and
the experience and the insights. Of course I pay a lot of attention toare
holding the field on the level of the soul and notice if representatives
in tune with the field.working!
Another reason for doing covered work I find in practising with colleagues
ho know each other very well. It is a beautiful way of training your
perception, but I would only do it this way with people who know the work
very well and who are well centred.
So as you can read in this, I do not find so many reasons for working
covered, and we all are different and we have all our own style of
In the end it is the result that counts most, and not any opinion or<http://www.opstellingen.com/> ngen.com/>
concept.
With kind regards and lots of love
Margreet Mossel
www.opstellingen.com <http://www.opstelli ;<http://www.opstelli
ngen.com/>anse.be
_____
Van: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] Namens Patricia
Verzonden: donderdag 30 november 2006 10:39
Aan: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [ConstellationTalk] client's interview out of group's presence
Hello from Belgium ! A colleague of mine told me that during her group
workshops, she would always have the interview with the client prior to
his/her constellation apart from the group. That means she does it
confidentially, in a separate room and then join back the group with her
client for the constellation. So the group is unaware of the subject and
the story related to it, and the client safeguard his privacy. This
provides wonderful insights, with a more neutral quality to jump in the
field of the constellation...and very good results. Does anyone of you
have experience with this or any comment ? Thanks and great days
!...sorry for my "belgian english" !! Patricia Wépion, Belgium
website : http://www.consteld ;<http://www.consteld
<http://www.consteld ;<http://www.consteldanse.be> anse.be> anse.be>
<http://www.consteld ;<http://www.consteld ;<http://www.consteld<http://www.consteldanse.be> anse.be>
anse.be> anse.be>
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