[ddots-l] Re: [Bulk] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any sug gest ions?
- From: "Dave Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:27:40 -0700
Nick,
I'm a bit surprised at this: "These isolated sets of 2 15-amp circuits per
each of these rooms are..."
Outlet wiring (at least in the U.S. is minimum 20 Amps. It's the light
fixtures that are usually on 15 Amp circuits.
I do agree with your wiring of the dedicated sets of outlets from two phases
of the 220 Vac mains -- that's a good practice to balance the load. However
I would keep my gear (including computer) all connected to the same phase of
the 220 V to remove the possibility of any 58Vac potential difference due to
running off different legs. In other words, one room on one phase and
another on the other is fine, but avoid having your keyboard connected to
one phase and your mixing board to the other. The eddy currents can be
problematic.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Dotson" <nickdotson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 19:19
Subject: [Bulk] [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio,
any sug gest ions?
When I moved into my home in 1978, I found that all but the 220VAC outlets
were 2-wire, and contracted with an electrician to have the outlets changed
out. When the city inspected, the electrician got busted for having
exchanged the outlets for ones with 3-prong faceplates, but he had used the
same 2-wire wiring without any ground wire. He lost his city license, got a
fine, but managed not to go to jail. I had to spend allot of additional
money to have the place rewired to properly grounded wiring. And when I put
in the studio and studio control room, I was advised by electricians, and
did, have separate isolates circuits run having their own drop from the
power pole's distribution box. Suffice it to say, they're quiet, as
contrasted to taking power from any of the house's pre-existing circuits.
These isolated sets of 2 15-amp circuits per each of these rooms are stepped
down from 220 lines.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron" <cameron@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:50 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any sug
gest ions?
> Hi. No it's not, but this happens whether my amp is on or not.
>
> Cameron.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of albertm13@xxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:38 PM
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> sug
> gest ions?
>
> Sean,
>
> I'm talking about a real short. If his amp's case is somehow connected
> the
> hot wire and then the ground is really connected to the case as it should
> be
> then that will make a short circuit. As I said before, this is what the
> ground is supposed to do; it will make the circuit unuseable until the
> problem's corrected.
>
> Cameron,
> Is your amp connected to the same outlet as everything else?
>
> Albert
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Sean A. Cummins" <seanacummins@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> suggest ions?
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:33:11 -0700
>
> Albert,
>
> Normally you would connect the small ground wire to the center screw of
> the
> outlet, but in this case if indeed the electrical wiring isn't up to code,
> the outlet isn't grounded as well, and connecting the wire to the center
> would result in nothing.
>
> Your saying " causing a short", isn't analogous to his situation. A short
> is typically misnomer for a hot line that is directly connecting to the
> ground, or common. If he has voltage traveling through a heating system,
> he
>
> would have bigger problems then a ground issue. Though very rare that
> voltage could be flowing through piping, everyone in the building would
> have
>
> dead pets and children.
>
> Sean
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <albertm13@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:51 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> suggest ions?
>
>
> Sean's fix is good to do but it sounds like something is connected wrong
> and
>
> you'll still have the problem. His solution may even cause a short which
> will make the circuit unuseable until it is fixed correctly. This is
> actually what the ground is supposed to do.
>
> Whether it is you someone else: Get a voltmeter and connect it from your
> guitar ground on the cable to the ground of an outlet and if you read
> anything more than 10V then you should get your amp fixed or at least
> checked. Even if the meter reads 20V it might be OK but I don't want to
> be
> respobsilble for your death.
>
> Albert
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Sean A. Cummins" <seanacummins@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> suggest ions?
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 06:43:32 -0700
>
> Cameron,
>
> sounds like your building is definitely not up to code.
>
> However, you can usually resolve this problem by adding a three prong to
> two
> prong adapter that has a wire coming off for the ground prong.
>
> Splice at least 14 or 12 gauge wire to the wire on the adaptor using a
> wire
> nut.
>
> You want to make this long enough to go to the nearest copper or iron
> piping
> like a baseboard heater or old fashion iron radiator . You will need to
> fasten the bare end of the wire to one of the pipes either by rapping the
> stripped wire around the copper pipe and twisting it back on to itself, or
> even an alligator clip, that can be purchased even at Radio Crap, and
> clipping it to one of the heat fins of the base board.
>
> Using the old radiator, you can even solder the end to the iron pipe, but
> you need to make sure it is iron. If it is copper, you can cause
> electrolysis to cause the pipe to begin to brake-down , and eventually
> leak,
> or worse, burst. Remember, if it is painted, which most people have
> ignorantly dun, you will need to remove a little area of paint, or just
> find
> an area, like the valve control, that is bare iron or steel to attach the
> wire.
>
> The concept is that, all heating systems will eventually be touching earth
> some where in its travels through the building.
>
> The ultimate and safest way of grounding is to drive a rebar stake into
> real
> earth and running the wire to this. But not knowing how far you are from
> actual earth, makes this a sketchy statement at best.
>
> By law, the building owner should have an electrician come and evaluate
> your
> need, he/she wont want a lawsuit over such a little matter.
>
> Also, if you haven't already experienced this, what ever you do, don't
> play
> your guitar and let your lips touch the mic at the same time, before you
> have fixed the problem. You will get a very painful shock when your lips
> ground to the mic, because the lips have vast amount of nerve endings.
> WATCH OUT! I'm warning you, and I'm not kidding!!
>
> Sean
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <albertm13@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:47 AM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> suggest ions?
>
>
> Cameron,
>
> Is it a static electricity shock? Do you get one short shock and then you
> can hold the mic?
>
> Albert
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Cameron" <cameron@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> suggest ions?
> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:25:31 -0400
>
> Hi. it happens with dynamic and condenser mics, and even when the phantom
> power is off for the condensers.
>
> plastic mic clips being used since I only have small diafram condensers at
> present.
>
> Cameron.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Nick Dotson
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:31 PM
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> suggest ions?
>
>
> Remember static electricity with carpet? Also, is the mic condenser with
> phantom power or dynamic? In either event is the mic mount a spider
> mount,
> or, just one which you screw onto the boom? It's probably plastic, but
> I'm
> wondering if there is a grounding problem, if the mic and stand are
> breaking
>
> or floating the ground?
>
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron" <cameron@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 12:30 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
> suggest ions?
>
>
>> Hi. No no no, it's not just when you touch a mic. it's when you touch
>> anything metal connected to the power conditioner, like the control
>> surface,
>> computer, audio interface, and the conditioner itself.
>>
>> as soon as the mic is unplugged, everything is back to normal.
>>
>> Cameron.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On
>> Behalf Of D!J!X!
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:02 PM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
>> suggest ions?
>>
>> Interesting, and you get shocked everytime you touch a mic plugged into
>> the
>> mixer??? How about when you touch the mixer itself?
>>
>> D!J!X!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Cameron
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 12:45 PM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
>> suggest ions?
>>
>> carpet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On
>> Behalf Of D!J!X!
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:36 PM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
>> suggest ions?
>>
>> Put on shoes and try it, or wait, are you on carpet?
>>
>> D!J!X!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Cameron
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 12:32 PM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
>> suggest ions?
>>
>> Hi. not wearing shoes, my desk is not metal, and I am not touching the
>> mics
>> when I get shocked. although, touching the mics will shcok me too if I
>> do.
>>
>> they are all 3 prong outlets.
>>
>> Cameron.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On
>> Behalf Of albertm13@xxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:57 AM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: getting shocked by equipment in home studio, any
>> suggest ions?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If you have three pronged outlets you could possibly start by going to a
>> hardware store and buying an outlet tester. Sorry, I couldn't find one
>> at
>> homedepot.com. You can read about them at
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester and
>> www.acmehowto.com/howto/homemaintenance/electrical/outlettest.php
>> Make sure you get one that can be plugged into the outlet and not just
>> put
>> near the outlet. You would need sighted help because they only have
>> lights.
>> They are not expenssive.
>>
>> If you have two pronged outlets then it's probably a bad piece of
>> equipment
>> on your end but turning the plugs around might help. I don't know of an
>> easy way for you to test for the problem without a voltmeter.
>>
>> If the problem isn't your house wiring then you need someone who could
>> figure out what piece of your equipment is causing this problem. Old
>> pieces
>> of equipment like a tube amps are notorious for causing this problem.
>>
>> Whenever you get shocked, electricity flows through you which means it
>> has
>> to go in one part of you and out another. Birds on power lines don't get
>> killed because they are only touching one thing. You are touching your
>> mics
>> but you must be touching something else too. That's why someone else
>> recommended a rubber mat. Using a rubber mat is only hiding the problem
>> but
>> the problem is still there. Are you wearing shoes? Perhaps your desk is
>> metal and it is touching something.
>>
>> Albert
>>
>> --- Cameron wrote ---
>> Hi all. I have a problem, hopefully someone can give me some suggestions
>> or
>> shed some light on why this is happening.
>>
>> The apartment complex I'm living in now was built in the early sixties I
>> believe. The outlets are not very good, worn out, you can't plug
>> anything
>> into the top of any of them because it just falls out. You can only plug
>> things into the bottom plug.
>>
>> Anyways, when I was using my FW1884, I didn't notice any issues with
>> anything except for noise because I am on a dirty circuit/loop being
>> shared
>> by all sorts of appliances and god knows what else.
>>
>> My current setup is now my ADK rack mount machine, Motu896 MKIII firewire
>> interface, and BCF2000 control surface, which is all plugged into a power
>> conditioner.
>>
>> I started doing some tracking with my new gear for a new job this week
>> and
>> whenever I used a mic that required phantom power, as soon as the mic was
>> plugged into the interface, I would get shocked if I touched anything
>> metal
>> that was plugged into the conditioner, including the mic itself computer,
>> control surface, interface, etc, . It's not enough to cause damage, but
>> it
>> is unplesent and is enough of a jolt to make you quickly stop touching
>> whatever control you're touching.
>>
>> This happens even when the phantom power is switched off for every
>> channel
>> on the interface. I found out this afternoon that it also happens with
>> dynamic mics too.
>>
>> As soon as all mics are unplugged, everything is fine.
>>
>> My power conditioner doesn't appear to have a ground lift switch. Is
>> this
>> the issue? Is there anything I can do to remedy this? I've got 5 months
>> of
>> writing and recording ahead and I really don't want to be freaking
>> shocked
>> every time I touch my gear!
>>
>> I'm going to make this issue known to the apartment manager on Monday but
>> I
>> really doubt they will understand what I'm talking about, or give a damn
>> for
>> that matter.
>>
>> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Cameron.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
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>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.107/2382 - Release Date:
> 09/19/09
> 06:03:00
>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.110/2385 - Release Date: 09/20/09
17:51:00
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