Hi Mike, while you say you are not pushing the mac over the PC, please be
careful and consider when you write lines like
"Again its a mater for preference, but if you are thinking of building yourself
a serious studio, the Mac is the serious way to go because you will have both
worlds."
Both worlds aside, that line and the use of the word "serious" seems to
contradict you and seems to state that if anybody wants to be serious about
recording or running a studio the mac would be the better choice; there are
probably a number of folks on this list, myself included, who would disagree.
Furthermore, if I were a new or perspective client and I came across this post
on this list or on google, hearing this from you, and especially since you work
for, or represent DD, I'd take your word for it and get a Mac and would
consider the pc, sonar, ct and all that inferior or not as good, which then
represents a conflict of interest, seeing as how (as far as I know), all of
DD's products (which is what this list is for) run on PC/win7. I know it's not
probably what you mean or how you meant it, but that's how it comes across,
which is why I'm writing this message, and reiterate, let's be careful on the
advice we give and how we give it on these public places. Remember that here we
have all sorts of users, from those of us who've been doing this since before
these things have been accessible, to those who just started out with sonar and
ct for the first time just last week. Why do I say this? Simply because I get
plenty of private Emails from members of this list, talking about how they are
discouraged because of all the talks of what SONAR can't do and how it's
outdated and how it has limitations etc etc. and how they feel as if they
wasted (or would waste) their money by buying it.
So I then have to try and help these people out and explain things and try to
encourage them to make music and use the tools they have and make the most of
it as oppose to worrying about other things. Things are hard as it is for us
blind producers with the lack of accessibility and support in most areas, and
some times in stead of helping, these comments and conversations discourage
those who are newcomers or who are having a hard time with getting things going
as it is; as of late last year when this whole mac vs. pc thing started, I've
gotten questions from quite a number of people, should I get a mac, should I
not use a pc, should I get windows10, can I run sonar and ct on windows 10, can
we make the windows 7 classic theme work under windows 10... ... ...
And please note, I'm not writing this as a complaint, I don't mind helping
people and the questions don't bother me, I'm simply writing this publicly so
that we are all more aware of the type of impact and how far reaching it is,
when these messages are written. Let's remember that though this is an Email
list, it should really be treated as a forum where hundreds of people perhaps
read these messages as they come across, and who knows how many others will
come across them on the list archives or a search engine; and unfortunately not
everyone interprets things the same.
In any case, just because sonar is old or ct is limited or windows 7 has
limitations, if people have that and it's all they have, let's encourage them
to make music with it and get the most of it while they can. Yes windows 7 is
old, yes sonar 8.5 is too, but in my line of work I've seen older products
being used to this day with great success, not just because they're old or
outdated do they get replaced with something better. Our government still uses
good old fortren and cobol programming languages and OS's like DOS and XP are
still in use in many places.
Now I'm not against updating to the latest or jumping on board the latest ship
(where applicable), I myself have a custom built system with windows 7, 10, and
macOS 10.12.4, but we must be careful not to discourage the use of the old just
because of what's new, or giving preference to the new over the old; if we keep
saying sonar is dead and is not usable, and this daw or that daw is better than
sonar, most people will not want to purchase or use ct and sonar, which again
is DancingDot's product and what this list is for, no?
I personally have a "serious studio" used to make music and work with
"serious" clients, and I certainly don't own a mac or use Apple products to
make the music or productions we do. I still use windows 7 and sonar, and when
the funds and time and work allow, I might take a look at other possible
options on windows 10 or whatever OS I choose, but right now SONAR is meeting
the needs and keeping people happy, so why not use it?
Yes samplitude is newer and might be better, and it's a great thing that Steve
and Phil and the guys have done with it, and Logic and pt/ft might be other
choices on the mac etc, and thank God for choices and options, but, many people
on this list are looking for help on how to use sonar and ct and get the most
of it, probably not to hear how sucky sonar or windows is compared to some
other product lol. I'm surprised Bill and the admins have let these convos go
on as far as they have; while they are informative, they also present a
conflict of interest to DD and its products and its customers IMO.
So for those who might have read that and got confused or are wondering, no,
you don't have to use a mac to have a pro studio or be taken seriously, (though
peer pressure can do allot). Actually, a few of my clients who are pro
photographers and video editors have come to me because they want to switch
from Apple hardware or get better hardware for macOS, and I've been to a few
studios where Cubase on the PC, proTools, and even SONAR on a PC is what they
use.
Another quick note of interest to us regarding macs is that as those of us who
have used the latest macOS know, voiceOver accessibility in many areas of the
OS have been a bit of a coaster ride, where many have noticed that Apple seems
more focused on iOS accessibility and making improvements there, and has sort
of pushed macOS to the back burner. This is why I always tell people, try a mac
before buying one, but try it for real; a few minutes at an Apple store is not
trying something that you'll be using for hours day in and day out, especially
where work is concerned. Contrary to popular myth, Apple products do have
flaws, and their OS is just as buggy as windows or linux, and voiceOver is not
perfect or this great screen reader that makes everything accessible; it's the
nature of human made products, just as we have defects, so will the things we
make have defects ;)
Hopefully nobody is too mad or upset with me, I'm just trying to help out and
point out this topic from a different point of view; it's not my intention to
step on anyone's toes or force my opinion on anyone. Speaking of opinion,
that’s what this message is, just my views and opinions, so take it for that;
they do not represent, and are not in any way associated with DD or the owners
of the list.
Regards, DJX
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Michael Ciarciello
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 4:19 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: To Mac Or Not To Mac?
please excuse my horrible writing in the last post, However I was trying to let
Andrey know that having a Mac would definitely be an added bonus for him as it
covers both worlds.
Once again I say this depending on the need of what you want to do, and any one
wanting to stay on the PC is doing a good thing too, and that goes for those
who want to stay in the Mac platform.
I just found that at one point having the Mac was a good thing for what I want
to do.
Cheers.
On Mar 29, 2017, at 10:41 PM, Michael Ciarciello <m_dsmusic@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
HI Andrey The question on whether or not the Mac is easier to operate under
social media sites, is a mater of taste.
Jaws indeed works with such sites as FaceBook, and most social media sites.
That being said the Mac has its advantage in that FaceTime which is a means
of connecting to on person to another works really well and does not cut off
like Skype does.
If I were you, and you really want to go the serious route, I’d definitely go
for a Mac because you can indeed install Windows under BootCamp giving you a
full working serious studio machine, and then use FlowTools and or Logic pro
on the Mac side so that you are on the cutting edge of music technology and
recording tools.
I know it sounds like a lot of work and lots of memorizing of OS, and
Windows, but lets be serious, Samplitude, FlowTools, Logic pro are serious
music Daw’s and having these under your belt would give you best of both
worlds.
I went Mac about six years ago, and have been running Windows too, with
exception to my newer Mac’s which run Windows 10, and my older Mac 2011 which
runs Windows 7.
I’m sure that folk on list might be thinking that I’m crazy, but I seriously
sat down one day and decided to build myself a system which gives me both
worlds, and my clients that I work with are very appreciative of this because
some of them prefer the sound of Logic, and or Protools, haven’t yet worked
with any one on Samplitude, however I’m sure that its going to work too.
Again its a mater for preference, but if you are thinking of building
yourself a serious studio, the Mac is the serious way to go because you will
have both worlds.
I don’t want any one list saying that I’m pushing Mac, because I’m not, its
just a fact of what I deal with on an every day bases from teaching to
working.
Cheers.
On Mar 29, 2017, at 6:00 PM, Andre Jarreau <andre.jarreau@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hey Bill, Is a MAC a better social media machine than a Win10 PC using
JAWS18?
Was leaning toward a Samplitude Win10 machine but social media.
Website, FaceBook, Twitter, Pintrist, Blogs ETC are needed for a fan
base and sales. I'm an indi artist with much to sell online. Even
if it means learning VoiceOver and FlowTools. What do you think?
Thanks, Andre
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of BillList1
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 12:22 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: To Mac Or Not To Mac?
Good to see you posting here, Jay.
As you probably know (but just in case you do not), you will not be able to
run CakeTalking reliably on versions of Windows beyond Windows7.
Detailed explanation at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26996884/Statement%20on%20Compati
bility%20of%20CakeTalking%20with%20Windows8%20and%2010.txt
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Ciarciello
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 11:20 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: To Mac Or Not To Mac?
Hi there indeed I use my Mac as well for social media and it works
really really well under Facebook and all the programs that you're so
used to using for your iPhone definitely is worth it even if you're
not going to wait for musical purposes Hope this helps
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 29, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Jay Pilkington <jay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
Hey Guys,
It's been a minute since I've posted anything. I have a question.
Thinking about going with a Mac, not for my DAW, still working with JAWS
and Sonar, but for my main computer.
The thing is that JAWS on a PC platform does not seem to be anywhere as
compatible as my iPhone when trying to access Face Book, Youtube, and other
social media aps that are critical to marketing in the modern world.
Now, that said, let me say that I'm still on Windows 7, JAWS 15. I've got
things in the works to upgrade both, but it is just amazing how quick and
easy social media is on my iPhone.
Does anyone have experience with Voiceover on the Mac?
Again, I'm not talking about replacing JAWS and Sonar, talking about the
accessibility of products regarding the Internet and social media.
Thanks,
Jay Pilkington
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Ciarciello
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:40 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: accessible Tone studio editor
Hey Mike thanks will do for sure
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2017, at 3:29 PM, Mike Tyo <mtyo@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
You're welcome. I wish you all the best in getting that straightened out.
I'm not too enthusiastic about accessibility in many of these mainstream
companies as we move forward. However, if third parties can still get at
things, then there's still a chance of keeping some of this stuff alive -
particularly the higher end software plugs.
Do keep us posted though.
Cheers back!
Mike
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Ciarciello"
<m_dsmusic@xxxxxxxx>
To: "ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 21:50
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: accessible Tone studio editor
Hey Mike thanking you so much for the confidence.
Trouth of the matter is the Boss stuff is really good, and while there is
tone lab, I just prefer the true tonality of boss stuff.
Indeed this is going to be a challenge, however The guy I spoke to from
apple from accessibilitytold me to recontact him again, because while
apple can’t do anything they are going to try to let them know.
I’m going to keep on trying because I don’t want to get rid of my peddles,
and my Roland integra7 is actually working really well under AU mode from
Logic, and I actually have control of all the plug in knobs, and setting
up of the module.
I’m going to contact Logic Pro to find out if I can’t make the Boss
interface as an AU plug mode.
Sounds like a long shot but its worth it lol.
In the mean time I could make some use of the Windows partition and use
the librarian to some extent.
All keep you all posted.
In the mean time if some one has any suggestions, just let me know.
Cheers.
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