[duxuser] Carriage Returns: was - no style
- From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:10:43 +0100
Hi,
Having changed the subject line, can I just interject here, and try
clarify the problem.
There are in fact at least TWO kinds of return, but for the exercise
here, they are essentially a "Hard" return, and a "Soft" return.
A Hard return is the most straightforward. It is an absolute, definite
control advising that the text following is to go on to a new line. No
ifs or buts.
On the other hand, a Soft return is used normally by PC software, as an
indicator that a line of text is terminating at a predetermined
boundary, such as a right margin. As such, this margin may be altered,
and the Soft Returns re-positioned accordingly. Any Hard Return remains
exactly where is was placed.
The problem issue arises when the file is saved. Most older software
would not save Soft Returns, simply because there was only a Carriage
Return in the ASCII Character Table, and no Soft Return as such.
Remember that ASCII originally started life as a 128 character Table, so
there was not much room for accommodating extra controls when someone
developed "Word Wrap".
So it was assumed with plain text files that a Soft return was there by
design and intended as a Hard Return.
With modern software, files are saved in a non-plain text format, such
as Word for example. Word also gives us the choice of saving in a
variety of ways, one of which strips out Soft Returns. Of course this
then means that a plain bog standard ASCII editor potentially sees one
huge long line of text, which falls off the screen, unless as in the
case of Notepad, there is a Word Wrap facility built in.
I hope this explanation hasn't clouded the water too much.
George Bell.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dan
> Geminder and Suzan Muncer
> Sent: 27 April 2004 13:44
> To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxuser] Re: no style
>
> Newer versions of MS Word (2000 and beyond, I think) do not
> insert the hard return into .txt files. In WordPerfect,
> select the ASCII Undelineated Text file type.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dave Durber
> Sent: April 27, 2004 7:25 AM
> To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxuser] Re: no style
>
>
> One of the biggest problems with importing formatted text
> files into word processors, particularly windows-based word
> processing programs, such as WordPerfect, Word and DBT, is
> how the file was saved to a text file in the first-place,
> because you are given so many different formatted text
> choices from which you can choose, when you are saving any
> files from the default word processor format, to text format.
>
> It would be wonderful if these types of programs had an
> import facility that imported text files "as is" without
> trying to impose any pre-conceived ideas as to how it thinks
> the file should be formatted according to its own internal rules.
>
> The old DOS-based word processor called Word Star had such a facility.
>
> So, for example, if a text/ASCII file contained hard return
> codes, hard page break codes and spaces which preserved the
> original layout of the document when it was saved to
> text/ASCII format, Word Star would not make any assumptions
> as to how it perceived the file should be formatted according
> to its own set of rules if the file was imported into its
> ASCII text format function.
>
> In other words, if the exporting word processor, when the
> file was being saved to ASCII format, placed a hard return at
> the end of each line; placed a hard page break at the bottom
> of each page; placed multiple spaces to indicate centered
> headings; placed multiple spaces at the beginning of lines to
> indicate hanging indents in lists and outlines, Word Star
> through is ASCII importer, preserved all of these codes
> including all spaces so that you would have a true and
> accurate layout of how the original file was formatted. You
> could then use Word Star's internal formatting functions to
> produce an output file, formatted to suit a particular purpose.
>
> I think that this type of importer would be an excellent
> function for DBT.
>
> What about it! You guys at Duxbury?
>
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:26:29 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >Hi Terry,
> >
> >It sounds like your text file is not as plain Jane as you think, and
> >that there may be things like Tabs in it which are confusing
> the importer.
> >
> >George.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >On Behalf Of stravinsky
> >Sent: 24 April 2004 02:23
> >To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [duxuser] no style
> >
> >I often import from text files and fid that the style is
> automatically
> >set for outline or poetry. How can I minimize this since I usually
> >just want plane Jane (sorry if there are any Janes' out
> there I'm not
> >refering to you) so no style. Any advice welcome, as it
> will be when I
> >start learning the power of styles.
> >
> >Terry Chaney
> >
> >
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