[sib-access] Re: SV: Re: The current state of accessibility in Sibelius 7.51 Please read carefully!
- From: Chi Kim <chigookkim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 08:10:29 -0400
Kevin and Gordon,
This is a great news!
I just read the entire document, and I'm going to update to Sibelius
7.51 and try it out soon.
It seems like there are quite a bit of work around to memorize, but this
is an excellent start!
Thank you for working on this. Also thanks to all the avid folks who
heled to make this happen.
Chi
On 10/20/2014 4:04 PM, Kevin Gibbs wrote:
> As some of you may know, Gordon Kent and I have been working on special
> documentation for Sibelius 7.51 for use with an VDA. The link to this
> documentation is below.
> http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/how_to/Sibelius-Accessibility-for-the-Visually-Impaired-User
>
>
> Please unzip the file and read the documentation very carefully before asking
> any questions. We have done our very best to give as clear a picture of what
> is possible with Sibelius as we could.
>
> Best,
>
> Kevin
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Richard Andersson <anderssonpost@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Any news? Did Avid release the accessibility documentation for Sibelius 7?
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>> Fra: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] PÃ¥ vegne af Kevin Gibbs
>> Sendt: 17. september 2014 20:05
>> Til: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Emne: [sib-access] Re: The current state of accessibility in Sibelius 7.51
>> Please read carefully!
>>
>> Guys,
>> I really need you all to be patient. Please do not upgrade from Sibelius
>> 5.25 to 7.51. In absolutely no event will you receive an upgrade in
>> accessibility and performance.
>> For those of you who have Win7 on your computers, and can run in XP
>> compatibility mode, it would be ideal if you can have both Sibelius 7.51 and
>> 5.25 available on the same machine.
>>
>> As I write this, the product manager for Sibelius, Sam Butler, is out of the
>> office until September 29. I sent him our finished accessibility oriented
>> documentation with the understanding that he was going to put it on Avitts
>> website for public distribution. This has not yet been done. When it is, I
>> will inform you of the link and encourage all of you to go and read this
>> documentation,which you will be able to do without purchasing the product.
>>
>> Once you have All read the documentation thoroughly, you can make an
>> informed decision as to whether Sibelius 7.51 is right for you.
>>
>> If any of you have specific questions reply to this message and I will do my
>> best to answer them as time permits.
>>
>> There is one critical thing that you all need to understand before you
>> consider upgrading to 7.51. The installation and authorization process for
>> 7.51 is absolutely inaccessible. It is not possible to do this without
>> sighted assistance. Gord was able to actually do it. But the process
>> involved a combination of jaws, OCR, NVDA, and a bunch of other hacks. But
>> we have decided that the steps involved are absolutely impossible to
>> document. Therefore, it is absolutely not recommended that a totally
>> sightless person attempt to authorize Sibelius 7.51 without sighted
>> assistance. PERIOD!
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 17, 2014, at 1:47 PM, Chris Smart <csmart8@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> oh i trust you, no worries. (grin) just pushing for as many tiny
>>> details as possible. :)
>>>
>>> At 02:41 PM 9/17/2014, you wrote:
>>>> Gord has done his best with Python. NVDA folks are not as yet
>>>> involved. I think the best route to go is to have the Avid folks
>>>> continue working on it. I have lines to engineers and others over
>>>> there. Trust us. We're on it. Okay?
>>>>> On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:57 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin, are the NVDA folks aware of this as well? Can anything be
>>>>> done with some sort of NVDA add-on? I gather this involves knowing some
>> python.
>>>>> At 01:49 PM 9/17/2014, you wrote:
>>>>>> Wait a minute before you upgrade. Everyone on this list read what
>>>>>> I'm about to say very carefully, please!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The accessibility available in Sibelius 7.51 is not as good as we
>>>>>> have been used to in 5.25, or for those of us who had the beta
>>>>>> scripts for 6.20. For example, it is not possible to know whether
>>>>>> a note has an articulation mark attached to it. hairpins and slurs
>>>>>> can be attached. But, when reviewing a score, NVDA will
>>>>>> consistently misreport the start and end point of a hairpin or slur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gord has written a section in our documentation explaining what can
>>>>>> and can't be done when writing lyrics under music.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The mixer is still completely inaccessible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please wait until our documentation is posted on the Avid website.
>>>>>> You will be able to read this documentation without purchasing the
>>>>>> product. I can't recommend reading this documentation strongly
>>>>>> enough before, yes, that's before you purchase Sibelius 7.51.
>>>>>> Accessibility is definitely a work in progress and you will
>>>>>> probably be sorely disappointed if you migrate from 5.25 to 7.51,
>>>>>> as the level of accessibility in 7.51 is nowhere near what we have
>>>>>> in 5.25. Future versions will improve this. But you need to have
>>>>>> no illusions about the current state of accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>> On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kevin. Thank you! That is some of the best news I've heard in months!
>>>>>>> I'd better upgrade to Sib7 then. (grin)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 11:11 AM 9/17/2014, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>>> This may be as good a time as any to let a cat out of the bag.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gordon Kent and I have been working closely with the folks at
>>>>>>>> Avid to enhance accessibility in Sibelius 7.51. It may be
>>>>>>>> completely coincidental that Avid has decided not to offer
>>>>>>>> downgrades. But we will be offering some special blind centric
>>>>>>>> documentation for Sibelius 7.51 and NVDA very soon. No JFW or
>> scripts needed.
>>>>>>>> Watch this space in the next month or so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 17, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Tim Burgess <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Me too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've sent a message to the product manager - I've got an
>>>>>>>>> automated out-of-office reply, but I know that this chap will
>>>>>>>>> respond
>>>> as soon as he
>>>>>>>>> possibly can.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.
>>>>>>>>> Tim Burgess
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chi Kim
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 17 September 2014 15:20
>>>>>>>>> To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [sib-access] Re: Problem: Avid Won't Downgrade Sibelius
>>>>>>>>> 7 to Sibelius 5 Anymore
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tim, thanks for investigating. Please keep us updated.
>>>>>>>>> I really hope I'm wrong about this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chi
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/17/2014 9:28 AM, Tim Burgess wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm querying this state of affairs via my contacts within
>>>> Avid and will
>>>>>>>>> post
>>>>>>>>>> a definitive statement from them as and when I receive a reply.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.
>>>>>>>>>> Tim Burgess
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chi Kim
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 17 September 2014 13:27
>>>>>>>>>> To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [sib-access] Problem: Avid Won't Downgrade Sibelius 7
>>>>>> to Sibelius
>>>>>>>>> 5
>>>>>>>>>> Anymore
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HI All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is a sad news. I just talked to Avid tech support last
>>>>>>>>>> Friday to help one of my students, and they won't let you downgrade
>> anymore.
>>>>>>>>>> The tech support told me that he cannot generate a new serial
>>>>>>>>>> for Sibelius 5 apparently.
>>>>>>>>>> He was aware of the accessibility with Sibelius 5 and the
>>>>>>>>>> script. I suspect this is going to be a huge problem now for new
>> users.
>>>>>>>>>> Chi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the
>>>>>>>>>> single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the
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>>>>>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single
>>>>>>>>> word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to:
>>>>>>>>> sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single
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>>>>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single
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>>>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single
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>>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single
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>>>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single
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>>> If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word,
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