Mr. Thornton, No, banders don't try to keep the numbers of birds we kill under 10%. We try to keep it zero. And we usually succeed. At one banding station I assisted at in Maryland, we had about 1000 birds in a season. To our knowledge (and yes, I admit some birds may leave our hands in worse shape than we recognize) we had one fatality. At a station I helped at in Maine, we had about 500 birds in one week. We had zero known deaths. If a station were to have as high as 10% mortality, I am sure that the bander's permit would be looked at with possibility of suspension. As far as an out-of-range, first year hummer in winter... well what can I say? The bird was FAR from where it belonged, was likely stressed long before a bander got to it. How many of these "lost" birds survive, with or without human intervention? Probably not many. That is part of why we band them - learn what happens to them, where they go, etc. If it were not for banders, we wouldn't know ANYTHING about winter hummers in the US. Read up on Nancy Newfield's work. Ask Bob Sargent or Chris Sloan what their mortality rate is. Have you ever been to a banding station? If so, did you have a bad experience? I'm nowhere near the level of the folks mentioned above, but I'd like to invite you (or anyone else who's never seen the process) to visit my banding station this summer to see how careful we attempt to be, and how much respect for birds most banders have. After that, you may want to visit a station by one of the banders with much more experience than I have - and there are several on this list. Happy Holidays! Charlie ===== ************************************************** Charlie Muise, Senior Naturalist Great Smoky Mountains Institute at Tremont Townsend, TN lat 35 deg, 38'23" long 83 deg, 41'22" "Up, Sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough" - Ben Frankline, Poor Richard's Almanac __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 =========================================================