[bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in quantity
- From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:03:15 -0500
Evan,
There was some confusion some time back about page numbers. I guess
Kenneth's still confused.
Some people thought page numbers were being stripped because they couldn't
see them in K-1000. The last I heard, Bookshare and KESI didn't store the
page numbers the same way in the DAISY files, so K-1000 couldn't access page
numbers in books from Bookshare. That was due to the previous DAISY
standard not being specific on how to store them. Hopefully both Bookshare
and KESI will support the latest DAISY standard soon and that problem will
go away. However, K-1000 not being able to access the page numbers in the
mean time doesn't mean that they have been stripped.
If Stephen's lurking on the list and happens to read this message, maybe he
can tell us if K-1000 now supports the DAISY standard that was released last
year, or at least if it now supports the method for storing page numbers
specified in the latest standard. Or how soon K-1000 is expected to support
the method.
As for Bookshare, I haven't heard that they've done any work on upgrading to
the latest DAISY standard, but that doesn't mean they're not doing it. I
suspect they haven't, though, due to Engineering being short-staffed.
BTW, Stephen, thanks for explaining back then why the page numbers didn't
show up in K-1000.
Gerald
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:08 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in quantity
Bookshare takes off the page numbers? This is not true in my experience.
Even in fiction books, especially with the recently upgraded Braille
translator, there are lines of dashes followed by the print page numbers,
which do correspond to those in the Table of Contents. If the page numbers
are stripped, this is not supposed to happen. I have submitted books with
all print page numbers, and they are present at least in the brf versions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Cross" <crossk@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:24 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in quantity
>I would like to reply to this message to make a few observations, but I
>hope my comments won't be regarded as critical. I really believe that the
>question of quality is much less important than the question of utility.
>For example, I just finished scanning a two volume biography of William
>Faulkner, and I am not sure I will submit it. I can't get the contents
>pages to scan showing the pagination properly, perhaps not too important
>because BookShare takes off the page numbers anyway. Beyond that, some
>pages are mostly pictures and, while I have caught and changed most of
>these, some may still be there. So about two-thousand pages of information
>about Faulkner may rest contented only on my computer. But learning about
>Faulkner is interesting, some would say important. Actually, using a
>quality standard no Faulkner books should be on BookShare, because as
>normally printed there is much punctuation he omitted, many small instead
>of non-capital i's, long spaces, etc. The same kind of statement is true
>of E. E. Cummings.
>
> Now I certainly hope Faulkner, Cummings, and similar authors are not kept
> off BookShare, just as I wonder why it is important to submit end-notes
> which refer to page numbers BookShare has stripped, and I think we have to
> be careful not to reject highly scholarly books just because the "quality"
> is not appropriate. The simplest books are easy to scan; the ones most
> required for research are much more difficult, but also much more useful
> for advancement and employment, factors which are doubtless used by
> BookShare in its fund-raising. .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:13 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in quantity
>
>
>> You'd be surprised by what publishers release. But your point is still
>> well
>> taken. We have the obligation to place on Bookshare's virtual shelves,
>> books in the same quality that originated from the publisher house.
>>
>> Pratik
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Riddle
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:43 AM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in
>> quantity
>>
>> Goes back to the laziness thing I was talking about earlier. A publisher
>> wouldn't release a book full of the author's typos. Why should we release
>> a
>> sloppy book?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:37 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in
>> quantity
>>
>>
>>> You are right that it is almost worse than the book not being there at
>>> all - wanting to read it, knowing that you theoretically could, but that
>>> it will be so messy and perhaps totally unintelligible in parts. it is
>>> a
>>> painful situation to be in.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "solsticesinger" <solsticesinger25@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:17 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in
>>> quantity
>>>
>>>
>>>>I won't touch a fair book either. In fact, if I'm going through the
>>>>collection, in search of something I want to read, and find out that's
>>>>only "fair", I tend to be rather disappointed. It's almost worse than
>>>>the
>>>>book not being there at all.
>>>>
>>>> Shannon
>>>> solsticesinger25@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lora" <loravara@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:44 AM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in
>>>> quantity
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I believe that you are correct. And perhaps it is the proper strategy
>>>>>at
>>>>> this point, though I'm not certain of it. One thought process might
>>>>> be
>>>>> that
>>>>> it's important in the first few years of Bookshare's life to build
>>>>> numbers,
>>>>> to show that the collection can grow when driven by the needs and
>>>>> wants
>>>>> of
>>>>> the blind membership.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, many people, myself included, won't touch a fair
>>>>> book,
>>>>> and would argue that they don't really count as a part of the
>>>>> collection as
>>>>> they are of such inferior quality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do I envision myself like Tevia ... He's right ... No, he's right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, just rambling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lora
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of E.
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:32 AM
>>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] bookshare seems to be interested in quantity
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that bookshare still wants to give most of the monetary
>>>>> reward
>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> the person submitting the book rather than the person validating it
>>>>> and
>>>>> so
>>>>> is not likely to make the difference more "equitable" as you want. I
>>>>> base
>>>>> this suspicion on the fact that bookshare still permits submits of
>>>>> poor
>>>>> quality books rather than raising the bar, thereby making less work
>>>>> for
>>>>> validators and improving the quality of bookshare's collection.
>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>> for now seems to want to keep the bar low and strive for quantity.
>>>>>
>>>>> E.
>>>>> At 07:15 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Monica,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do understand that some people validate for credits, and there's
>>>>>>nothing at all wrong with that. On the other hand, many of the people
>>>>>>on this list, yourself included, strike me as dedicated, and willing
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>do a good job for Bookshare at the same time. Originally, Evan I
>>>>>>think
>>>>>>it was, said that by offering more money, people would just rush
>>>>>>through their validations to get the credits. Although this may be
>>>>>>true for some, I still find it hard to believe that most volunteers
>>>>>>would do that. Didn't someone say that only seven people paid for
>>>>>>their
>>>>> memberships through their volunteer efforts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On the other hand, I'd rather see the pay scale changed entirely.
>>>>>>Perhaps
>>>>>>$2 for submissions, and $1 for validation, would balance the scales
>>>>>>more equably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This would balance so that 25 submissions, or 50 validations, would
>>>>>>pay
>>>>>>for a renewal of membership.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And if offering more for validations would cause people to race
>>>>>>through
>>>>>>a validation, offering less would seem to encourage people to race
>>>>>>even
>>>>>>faster. After all, if I'll only make fifty cents per validation, that
>>>>>>means I'll have to validate 100 books to get through the renewal
>>>>>>process. Better validate real fast!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Monica
>>>>>>Willyard
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 10:50 PM
>>>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: a sort of raise for validators
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi, Cindy. I have a scanner and use Openbook to scan. What I was
>>>>>>trying to say is that without credits, I wouldn't do much on the
>>>>>>validating side of things. As it is, I do validation both for the
>>>>>>credit and because we have a pretty hefty step 1 page right now. Lora
>>>>>>was talking about not validating for credits, and that is what I was
>>>>>>responding to. (smile)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Monica Willyard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Monday 9/25/2006 11:34 PM, you wrote:
>>>>>> >Monica,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >One gets so much more monetary credit for scanning, and all you'd
>>>>>> >really have to do after a scan is to check the copyright page and
>>>>>> >put
>>>>>> >the right info in the submission form; go through the book and be
>>>>>> >sure no pages have been omitted (we've all done that, and
>>>>>> >double-scanned a page, too); and delete junk characters; and run a
>>>>>> >spell-check. So you validate because you don't have a scanner? I
>>>>>> >think some can be had relatively inexpensively and it might pay you
>>>>>> >n
>>>>>> >the
>>>>> long run.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I don't blame you at all for validating for the credits. I probably
>>>>>> >would work for the credits, too. I admit that in my lifetime I have
>>>>>> >volunteered my time and efforts rather than donated money, not only
>>>>>> >because I feel I'm being useful but because I don't have that much
>>>>>> >money to donate. smile
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Cindy
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>
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