I am curious to know if Medical workers are among the perpretrators
as they actully implement the termination of lifes. Does anyone have
put the representatives of Medical staff in the constellation? Or
does anyone have helped clients who are the medical staff or
descendants of medical workders who were engaged in abortions?
Stephne
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Kenn Day <enki@...> wrote:
t
I suspect that this is not quite as clear cut as some would make
be. "Murder" can mean different things in different situations;to
different people. More importantly, if we are truly doing thiswork
in service of the client, what needs to be focused on is what ismost
helpful and supportive of the progress, healing and growth in theto
field of the client's family soul. My own experience has shown me
that is some constellations the impact of an abortion is similar
that of a murder, while in others it is not. To hold forth anof
absolute "truth" about what abortion is or is not serves no one.
namaste,
Kenn
On Oct 21, 2006, at 8:28 PM, David Grillo wrote:
Donna
Some people havent maybe yet managed to integrate that shadow...
d
-------Original Message-------
From: donna joy
Date: 10/22/06 01:43:54
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Abortion
If it matters what Bert thinks then ask him.
Otherwise, follow your own guidance I suppose.
I know it is hard to accept that we are all capable
of murder. It is so much "nicer" if we continue believing
that somehow we are immune to it all.
----------------------------------------
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: dgrillo@...
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:30:29 +0200
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Abortion
Dear Donna,
I know that you are not speaking out of judgement. Yet I think
events like
abortions are beyond words and definitions. I find Bert's use
ifthe word
murder as a bit exxagerated....especially when Im trying to see
oftheresa
difference between killing a foetus or removing the potential
justit in the
first 7 weeks which means that cells would have been formed...
Thanks for all the feedback Im recieving
david
-------Original Message-------
From: donna joy
Date: 10/21/06 12:34:52
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Abortion
In an attempt to clear any misinterpretations of my posting-
ain case.
Just because Bert considers abortion murder, doesn't mean it is
2judgement,
etc. It doen't mean it is unjustified, etc. I have had to have
calledmedical
abortions. Whatever the reason- Bert says in the work- It's
bymurder.
It is treated like a murder. So, if grandmom kills the neighbor
howdriving
over
him grandaughter may have an abortion down the road. This is
Yes,they stay
connected. They have both participated in the death of another.
doinggrandmom had an accident and Peggy Sue was drunk and got takenof,
advantage
but they are both seen as murders and are treated as such when
yet,constellations- according to Bert.
It is much eaiser for us to justify our behavior- no brain
intentionalwas goingto
die anyway, etc. The sooner we face the reality that
murder, butendinglife
is called murder- the sooner we can heal.
Again, there isn't a judgement attached by me to the word
followingperhaps we judge ourselves.
----------------------------------------
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Gary@...
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:35:36 -0700
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Abortion
Dear Barb,
Regardless what anyone's says and I totally agree with you. Iwhat
might ad
the man or woman does in their life after that or even the
be
children is very, very important NOT to overlook. Whether it
want torepresentedguilt,
atonements, divorce, suicide, drug use, alcoholism etc...I've
abortions and miscarriages in which there was a lifetime ofand
information
perfection in this fate. Who are any of us to judge. We just
Spiritrelease
the client from negative affects AND remember ABOVE all
tapped manydoes not
die.. It transforms and is in the field of the mother most
times.. This
fetal energy brought me to be a facilitator as I've been
andtime
to
alert its parents that it is important and still around them
Garytooor me
to help!
Much love to very facet of this work and human existence,
fact. AStuart LA
CA
By the way.....abortions can be a loyalty to a previous
generations that
lost a child as well.
Copy-cat grief etc....
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
beggenberger@...
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:07 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Abortion
Thank you Brenda,
I was aghast at the idea that Bert considered all abortions
murder and I
have yet to see them show up as murder. Just the opposite in
extremeacceptance
loving exchange saddened by grief and loss but a tenderness and
that feels very different to me than the shock and guilt and
system.
suppression that shows up when a murder is entangling a
mostThe Pope
may consider abortion murder and Bert as well but I remain
comitted to
listening to what the field tells me and I suspect that this
toforgiving
field knows the difference in a person's heart between wanting
balancing,end a
pregnancy and wanting to destroy a life.
Peace to all,
Barbara
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Brenda Sutherland <awakeningwoman@...> Hi David
I would like to comment in regards to the abortion question.
Sometimes an abortion can be a sacrifice, ie a way of
curse,ingiving
return to a peoples whom have been killed, in honour of a
wrote:canwhich
etc
be unconscious in the abortion process but effects the system.
It seems also to be the circumstances and the psychological,
physical
dynamics that effect the system in regards to an aborted child.
Brenda Sutherland
On 20/10/2006, at 7:48 PM, ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From:
Constellation Talk
Messages In This Digest (7 Messages)
1a.
Re: Questions re my current clients From: EJ52@... 1b.
Re: Questions re my current clients From: EJ52@... 1c.
Re: Questions re my current clients From: donna joy 2.
Re: Mirror neurons,metaphors for those not yet in the work
therapists
drjmpirone
3a.
Re: Abortion From: DIANE YANKELEVITZ
3b.
Re: Abortion From: donna joy
3c.
Re: Abortion From: DIANE YANKELEVITZ
View All Topics | Create New Topic
Messages
1a.
Re: Questions re my current clients
Posted by: "EJ52@..." EJ52@...
Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:45 am (PST)
Donna and others,
My concern is that as the work moves away from mostly
the
and health
filed workers as the majority clients and more and more into
safety
mainstream
where afacilitator can meet up with
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Messages in this topic (6)
1b.
Re: Questions re my current clients
Posted by: "EJ52@..." EJ52@...
Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:59 am (PST)
the rest of the thoughts
...that there are not enough supports in place to insure the
the
of the
therapists and clients. For example, supervision, support of
come
work kinds of
groups, not sufficient training (I do not believe a one year
training is
sufficient), mentorship, etc. After all who needs a lawsuit?
And for the client's protection as more and more of them
them fromforward
bearing pathological issues and disorders, how to protect
diagnose
charlatans,
the unprepared, the unethical ones the ones who cannot
haven't
appropriately.
This is what professional associations are about -standards,
ethics, best
practices, etc.
As we evolve these may become important issues and questions.
Ed Lynch
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Messages in this topic (6)
1c.
Re: Questions re my current clients
Posted by: "donna joy" aumpeace@...
Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:25 pm (PST)
I am not sure what you are saying.
I will clarify what I am saying, however.
I have simply put out some questions re real issues that I
that when
seen in constellations. Yes, there is the general opinion
we
incest is involved the mom is not available to dad... what do
there
look at when there is another child, or a stranger, etc. Are
tommorow
any lightbulbs, etc.
By asking questions, it doesn't mean that I will run out
clients
and take any advice as gospel. This is a discussion of ideas,
experiences, etc.
----------------------------------------
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: EJ52@...
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:51:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Questions re my current
the
the rest of the thoughts
...that there are not enough supports in place to insure the
safety of the
therapists and clients. For example, supervision, support of
them
work kinds of
groups, not sufficient training (I do not believe a one year
training is
sufficient), mentorship, etc. After all who needs a lawsuit?
And for the client's protection as more and more of them come
forward
bearing pathological issues and disorders, how to protect
diagnose
from charlatans,
the unprepared, the unethical ones the ones who cannot
between
appropriately.
This is what professional associations are about -standards,
ethics, best
practices, etc.
As we evolve these may become important issues and questions.
Ed Lynch
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Messages in this topic (6)
2.
Re: Mirror neurons,metaphors for those not yet in the work
Posted by: "drjmpirone" drjmpirone@... dechardin1
Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:11 am (PST)
Hey there Ed, would it be worthwhile to draw a distinction
beautifully,
the space the work is done in, which you describe so
present
and the place whereBert's Work belongs in the histotory,
psychology.?
and future of psychotherapy,healing and transpersonal
the
All constellations are blind in the sense that the content of
us
experience is not in us...it is given from elsewhere.Those of
what the
who are teachers as well as practitioners are often asked
near ,not to
work is about,where does it fit relative to other methods like
psychodrama,Gestalt etc.Would it be helpful to be able to give
others outside of the work metaphors that glide them
to
the space in which the work is done, using subtle bench marks
work
point the way.? In your teaching, how do you explain what his
for
is like, as opposed to what it is.Thanks drjmpirone@...
On Thursday, October 19, 2006, at 01:07AM, Gary Stuart
<Gary@...> wrote:
<<Original Attached>>
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Messages in this topic (16)
3a.
Re: Abortion
Posted by: "DIANE YANKELEVITZ" diane@... astrodiane
Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:30 pm (PST)
David,
The way I was taught, the difference is if the representative
about
the aborted child can stand. My teacher found that is usually
in
3 months, or 12 weeks. If the rep can stand, the child counts
constellations and
the order of siblings. So check this out in your
various
see if it seems true or not. I haven't heard anything about
aborthed
methods of abortion making any difference, so far.
Diane Yankelevitz
Bozeman, MT
----- Original Message -----
From: David Grillo
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:28 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Abortion
Does it make a difference in constellations, if a child is
taking
in the
first 7 weeks or after? Also, Is there a difference between
opinion
the RU486
(the pill) or suction (the traditional suction method) ?
David
.
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Messages in this topic (4)
3b.
Re: Abortion
Posted by: "donna joy" aumpeace@...
Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:19 pm (PST)
When I saw Bert in July, he made it very clear that his new
representative for
is that abortion is murder. When you intend to kill, that is
murder. It doesn't matter when you do the act.
Donna
----------------------------------------
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: diane@...
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:28:17 -0600
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Abortion
David,
The way I was taught, the difference is if the
about
the aborted child can stand. My teacher found that is usually
in
3 months, or 12 weeks. If the rep can stand, the child counts
constellations and
the order of siblings. So check this out in your
various
see if it seems true or not. I haven't heard anything about
miscarriages as
methods of abortion making any difference, so far.
Diane Yankelevitz
Bozeman, MT
----- Original Message -----
From: David Grillo
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:28 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Abortion
Does it make a difference in constellations, if a child is
aborthed in the
first 7 weeks or after? Also, Is there a difference between
taking the RU486
(the pill) or suction (the traditional suction method) ?
David
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Messages in this topic (4)
3c.
Re: Abortion
Posted by: "DIANE YANKELEVITZ" diane@... astrodiane
Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:09 pm (PST)
I will have to clarify that my comments related to
opinion
well as abortions, and I acknowledge Bert's view.
Diane Yankelevitz
----- Original Message -----
From: donna joy
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Abortion
When I saw Bert in July, he made it very clear that his new
representative for
is that abortion is murder. When you intend to kill, that is
murder. It doesn't matter when you do the act.
Donna
----------------------------------------
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: diane@...
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:28:17 -0600
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Abortion
David,
The way I was taught, the difference is if the
about
the aborted child can stand. My teacher found that is usually
in
3 months, or 12 weeks. If the rep can stand, the child counts
constellations and
the order of siblings. So check this out in your
various
see if it seems true or not. I haven't heard anything about
message in
methods of abortion making any difference, so far.
Diane Yankelevitz
Bozeman, MT
----- Original Message -----
From: David Grillo
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:28 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Abortion
Does it make a difference in constellations, if a child is
aborthed in the
first 7 weeks or after? Also, Is there a difference between
taking the RU486
(the pill) or suction (the traditional suction method) ?
David
.
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