Allisons letter

From: Ulrike Danks <ulrikedanks@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:09:30 +0800

Thank you, Allison, for your courage to share your inner journey so honestly
and truthfully and beautifully. It touches me beyond words of response. Yet I
want to thank you for including the victim-identified Germans. Being moved when
reading about your process also memories welled up of my own soul ache, which I
used to carry for being born as a German in 45, loyal to the collective
consciousness of that nation with the deeply unconscious notion that I wanted
to die to 'atone for the sins of my father'. Constellation work has changed my
life since....
I am so grateful that many people on this forum are committed to sharing with a
wisdom and integrity, that nuture and encourage those qualities in myself and I
assume in others too.
Ulrike

Ulrike Danks
Systems and Family Constellations WA
10 Bavin St. Denmark  WA 6333
Western Australia    - 61 - (0)8 - 98481280

To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: LevyAR@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:38:11 -0500
Subject: FW: [ConstellationTalk] Choice






Dear Chris, Angwynn, Barbara, Gary, and group:

With reassurance and support from you, along with the requests of a number

of people who have written privately and having processed this further

within myself, I am coming back on board and will share a bit as what has

occurred is a healing and learning opportunity.

People like Tom do have the canny brilliance of going right for trigger

points, and its not a happenstance that he targeted  as he did. In a way I

have to thank him.

When Anita wrote that she didnt know how shed feel if she were included in

a Tom narrative that prompted me to share a bit more.

Quite frankly, I felt disappointed when I experienced that some lacked

empathy in thinking that Toms words could be so easily shrugged off. I now

recognize that first of all, I was deeply triggered by them (obviously!),

and second, that many are not aware of the undercurrents that might prompt

that response.

Its exceptionally courageous for any victim-identified person of any

background to come to the rigors of this work as Ive heard Bert say that

he regards victims as somehow more difficult, even though clearly he has

helped many to healing.

Perhaps that challenge is steeper for we who as Jews approach the enemy as

teachers--- especially for Jews not prompted by the widely recognized

phenomenon of Jewish self-hatred which can readily lead one into becoming

either a perpetrator or the perpetrators capo/whore out of either

identification or survival fear. It goes without saying that everything I

describe here also applies to victim-identified Germans.

Unlike those whose attraction to the work comes with the added boost of a

positive father identification with Bert or those for whom a German teacher

is simply neutral, for me there is inevitably a great deal of fear, and I

know that Im not alone in that response.

Im not sure whether others practicing this form have to mediate their

dedication to it with their love for living (and past) relatives who totally

frown on any connection whatsoever with Germans or who have died in the

Holocaust.

The irony of connecting with ancestors via a method coming from the

perpetrator/enemy along with its frequent castigation of victims (which I

regard as a distortion in the view) requires exceptional spiritual integrity

and courage and really puts loyalty and conscience to the test in a way

that for others may perhaps be merely theoretical.

This has gone unseen in our professional community. Since its really the

experience of the clients who come to workshops month after month that most

matters to me, Ive been okay with that as I suspect are my other Jewish

sister-colleagues.

Within that context, finding my husband and me singled out as Jewish before

my professional group along with what I perceived (or perhaps

misinterpreted) as an insensitive, numbed out, mental response by some group

members (and a deafening silence from others) whose focus was on

re-including the perpetrator energy without preceding it by an embodied

acknowledgement of the victim energy, undoubtedly triggered the deeply

visceral Jewish fear of being singled out, excluded from belonging, and

killed.

The same movement that we see in constellations is ever-present in my

professional life in this community, when I stand connected and honoring of

my Jewish roots while walking towards the enemy/teacher/community. This

requires trust, yet exposes one to the danger of re-perpetration. So when

Johannes speaks of the risks of retraumatization in this work, for a Jewish

person, that risk is ever-present in relating to ones teachers and to this

community.

Yes, its my stuff but its also deeply connected to the core reasons this

work came into being and thats why I consider it worthy of mention here.

Aoart from the beautiful and deeply authentic writings and teachings of Daan

van Kampenhout, whom I honor and love as an elder on this particular path,

this is rarely spoken aloud. From what I can see many Jewish people in this

work contain this challenging paradox silently within themselves which as

Ive experienced during this incident can be suppressive and therefore an

incomplete resolution.

So for me, to finally reveal what I have long carried has in fact been

incredibly healing and I do feel a greater degree of safety in this group

and in life and so I return to this group with thanks to you all including

Tom.

The first time that Ed and I set foot on German soil, it was to go to Zist

and study with Bert Hellinger. On our drive through Switzerland, we stopped

to make a phone call, got caught in a sudden downpour, sought refuge in a

glass phone booth, and were mere inches away from being struck by lightening

which flashed around us on all sides. Several days later, when I set up my

first family constellation before Bert, he asked: If someone were to be

struck by lightening, who would it be?

Although Bert moved me out of harms way, the lightening bolts still find me

-- since then at an intensity that is usually enlightening, rather than

life-threatening. Yet sometimes I get scared, because Ive yet to find the

unconditional trust as to which it will be.

Perhaps one day I will.

For all of that, Ed and I do indeed (and gladly) pour the wine for the

victims and the perpetrators and lift a glass to Bert with a resounding

lchaim-- to life but correction, Tom, its not mogen david, its Cotes

du Rhone.

Alison

PS: And to my Jewish and German friends in the work reading this in blind

cc, if you have not been following this, read down this email and please let

me know, if youd like me to fill you in.

From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alison Rose Levy

Sent: Monday, 21 January 2008 4:27 AM

To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Choice

Thanks, Ingala, for this suggestion and I think it would be very helpful

and would suggest that the group adopt one of the first two suggestions.

Toms posting as well as the responses to it have triggered a lot for me

Im feeling weepy, scared, and emotionally overwhelmed at finding myself

labeled like this and cast as a designated victim in a supposedly

therapeutic forum/form that Ive devoted many years to practicing and where

I felt that I had some right to belong.

Despite many years of hard work, that kind of vulnerability to victim

identification is never that far away for someone like me, so perhaps I am

not sufficiently hardy to belong to this cavalier group of manly

philosophers. I have to apologize to the German masters of this work and

their surrogates if I have failed in my efforts to be a good enough German

because my heritage and ancestry make me pray to being that most

unattractive and unsympathetic of all creatures namely a Jewish victim

woman.

While some might enjoy these discussions as armchair philosophers, I must

confess I feel too exposed and vulnerable to feel that way. Im having a

hard time staying in the group, and it occurs to me that it would be much

simpler for everyone if I left so you could all celebrate your

inclusiveness.

Anyone wishing to contact me can do so privately, and Chris I am asking to

be removed for this time.

Alison

On 1/19/08 10:05 AM, Ingala Robl Greis at ingalarobl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<mailto:ingalarobl%40prodigy.net.mx> wrote:

Greetings to all

I have several suggestions for this type of conduct by people like Tom:

- We could form a Committee of Honour and Ethics, so that Chris

would not have to take this type of decision

- Once the page is up, we could use the poll-program so that

everybody could vote on this: leading to temporary exclusion

or total exclusion from the group, or whatever, which keeps the

lever off Chris also

- We could just let it be because everybody has a right to voice his/

her opinion, even those opinions we do not like and offend us, and

there are many people out in the world like this. Our motto is

inclusion. As several of you have mentioned: systemically, what Tom

wrote, tells more about Tom than about the people he wrote about,

Best greetings,

Ingala

El 18/01/2008, a las 14:22, Chris Walsh escribió:

Hi all

This was a difficult decision and not based on this email alone. I

have

given Tom a series of private warnings before so my move would not

have been

a surprise to him. I in fact had used the option to stop him

sending emails

but it failed on this occasion. So the only options were to put up

with this

or exclude him for a while. Please note the words for a while .

He does

have the possibility of returning if he apologises. If he does not

want to

do that then he is excluding himself.

I think Sheila made a very good point that Tom deserves the

feedback from

the group post exclusion. I will forward that to him. It is easy to

forward

you own emails to him as I have done here by copying him in.

hasta la vista

Chris Walsh

Melbourne, Australia

webpage: www.cwalsh.com.au

From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Anita Roy

Sent: Saturday, 19 January 2008 5:54 AM

To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Tom Melleltt

There are many ways to do set boundaries, and I appreciate that

Chris was in

a difficult spot and had to take measures. In light of recent

discussions re

breastfeeding and parenting, I am thinking what an appropriate

boundary

might be within a family or yahoogroup.

Suspension is a form of alienation. It is like sending a kid to his

room,

but he/she is still in the house, so not "thrown out". However,

that still

causes the child to feel separate and abandoned, and not part of

the family.

I once had a foster child, and if she had raging tantrums in the

living

room, she did have to go to her room, but I went with her, to

alleviate the

component of abandonment. It was preferable for her to stay in the

living

room, but with me or my husband containing her physical and verbal

violent

outbursts. This also alleviated the component of secret goings on

in the

living room when she wasn't there. The containment, and discussion

of her

behaviour were not secret, and transparency to everyone. This was also

educational for my own kids, as they saw the process and learned

from it.

So in that spirit, I would recommend inclusion in the group for

Mellett, but

his postings should be put on moderation as YahooGroups allows, and

if they

are considered inappropriate by Chris who is responsible for the

overall

well being of the group, then they simply shouldn'tt be approved for

broadcast. On good behaviour after any number of months deemed

appropriate,

Mellett could go back to "unmoderated" status.

Sincerely

Anita Roy

On 18/01/2008, Paul Chung <paulchung@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<mailto:paulchung%40paulchung.com.hk>

<mailto:paulchung%40paulchung.com.hk> > wrote:

Dear all,

I want to explore further from a systemic point of view. I would

like to

know if Chris has to right to set up a constellation to explore if

"suspension" is the best solution for the interest of the group?

While the

"group' also include Tom, does he has to right to mediate /

regulate in

the

constellation if he detects entanglement between Tom & Bert with

a view to

benefit the group. "Has the right" does not imply "has to drive".

I support Chris to blow the whistle. I would further support Tom

to have

the

access to read what is going on with the rest of the group after the

suspension. Again "have the access" does not imply he "has the

interest".

To me, Tom's email, as well as Bert's new style in recent years,

are the

best arrangement or the fate of the SC community. "Yes, that's

right"

In Chinese medicine, we give ways for the heat in fever to pass

out from

the

body rather than to "stop" or "neutralise" it. A typical example

is when

a baby or small child has fever, we'd rub our hands with medicine

oil to

heat before placing it over the baby's feet to direct the heat

from there.

Or we mop the baby's body with warm wet towel to drain away the

heat as

the

water evaporates from the body. While some people in the western

world

will

place ice cube / pad over the baby's forehead to keep it "cool".

From our

perspective, more heat will drain away from the "cooled" forehead

and the

brain cell may be damaged if the baby has a high temperature. We

consider

directing the heat away with warm wet towel or heated palm over

the feet

are

much safer.

Paul responding from Hong Kong,

a place where eastern & western culture conglomerate

2008/1/18, Ed Levy <levye@xxxxxxx <mailto:levye%40rcn.com>

<mailto:levye%40rcn.com>

<levye%40rcn.com>>:

Chris,

Thanks for addressing the issue of Tom's inflammable speech, which

doesn't

suit the purpose of this forum or meet his own seemingly

starved need

for

attention and contact. I hope he finds both in a healthier way.

Ed Levy

_____

From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>

<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>

<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>

<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]

On Behalf Of Chris Walsh

Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:38 AM

To: tmasthenes13@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:tmasthenes13%40yahoo.com>

<mailto:tmasthenes13%40yahoo.com>

<tmasthenes13%40yahoo.com><tmasthenes13%40yahoo.com>

Subject: FW: [ConstellationTalk] When Bert finally croaks . .

Dear Tom,

I'm sorry but this email of yours is totally over the top and

inappropriate.

Accordingly I have removed you from the list to give you a

chance to

cool

your heals and reflect.

You can reapply to join the group in two months if you make

appropriate

apologies to the people you insulted in your email especially

Alison

Rose

Levy, Ed Levy Ed Lynch and Bert Hellinger.

hasta la vista

Chris Walsh

Melbourne, Australia

webpage: www.cwalsh.com.au

From: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%25> <mailto:ConstellationTalk% ;>

<mailto:ConstellationTalk% ;>

40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%25> <mailto:ConstellationTalk% ;>

<mailto:ConstellationTalk% ;>

40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tmasthenes13

Sent: Friday, 18 January 2008 7:51 AM

To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%

<mailto:ConstellationTalk%25> <mailto:ConstellationTalk% ;>

<mailto:ConstellationTalk% ;>

40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ConstellationTalk] When Bert finally croaks . .

Greetings to one and all! As the "Phantom Constellator" who

"belongs

by not belonging," I just dropped in "to see what condition my

condition was in" and to offer my contribution to the worldwide FC

community when our esteemed Father Anton Suitbert Hellinger

finally

croaks.

I choose to describe this future event with a cheeky (actually

throaty!) English slang verb for dying because, as Jesus says, we

don't know the hour of our passing, and ole' Bert might live to

be a

hundred! Hell, the sonofabitch might outlive me!!!

But the actuarial tables predict otherwise, so odds are, he

kicks off

before I do. Therefore, I need a way for you all to stamp this

posting

into your memories and contact me when Bert's time is up and he

sojourns to that Great Constellation in the sky.

[for those subscribers whose first language is not English, the

etymology of the word "croak" meaning "to die" is either a

reference

to the frog-like sound of the "death rattle" emitted as the

person's

last breath on the deathbed, or else the Irish Gaelic verb "croch"

meaning "to hang" --- not only with a rope but also to "hang on a

cross," i.e. "to crucify."]

Here's my offering. For the last few weeks I have been obsessively

singing the moving and stirring German military requiem/elegy song

that Bert had requested to be sung at his 2006 Bavarian

Birthday Bash

as Max Dauskardt reported to us in his posting #3009 dated

December

18, 2006. Click here to read Max's post

http://health.

<http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/

3009>

groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/3009

The song is known either by its title: "Mein guter Kamerad" (My

Good

Comrade)

or its opening line, "Ich hatte einen Kameraden" (I once had a

comrade.)

Here's an English Wikipedia entry for the song, its use and

history:

http://en.wikipedia ;<

">">">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_hatte_einen_Kameraden>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_hatte_einen_Kameraden>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_hatte_einen_Kameraden%3e>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_hatte_einen_Kameraden>

.org/wiki/Ich_hatte_einen_Kameraden

I possess a very good and booming Irish tenor voice and I envision

singing this hymn at whatever memorial service for Bert we will

organize in Southern California.

(I would also recite his poem to Adolf Hitler in both his German

original and in my English translation.)

Ideally, the Comrade elegy should be sung by a large men's

chorus, but

I'm able to sing for ten men in case I have to sing solo. Perhaps

this notice might inspire other men to form a chorus.

I'd be willing to travel to any constellation center or conference

during the one year of official mourning for our beloved father

figure. What a way to set the mood for any and all constellations!

Hope you have enough floor space for all the horizontal

representatives you'll have!

(I can see it now. You know that point in a constellation when the

rep's knees start buckling as they get ready to drop dead? Hey,

sometimes it's the most comfortable position in the whole process.

I've actually fallen asleep as rep on the floor, only to wake

up to

the facilitator needing to convince me that I had actually died!)

Also, we should be proactive and consult our erudite

winemaster, "Over

Easy" Eddie Lynch, who should be able to provide cases of the two

vintage wines: Bert Nouveau and Bert Classique. (Isn't there a

Sophie

Liebfraumilch vintage as well?)

Check Ed Lynch's wine review in this posting #3550 of August 4,

2007

http://health.

<http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/

3550>

groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/3550

Oh, I just had a thought! Alison, perhaps you and your Eddie Levy

could provide some kosher wine, maybe Mogen David for the Jewish

representatives. We'll need both perpetrator and victim vintages!

All of the following You Tube videos are no longer than 3 minutes

long. Some are just 2 minutes long. Each and every one plays

the same

men's choral rendition of the song at a slow requiem or elegiac

tempo--- except for [3] which moves at the very stirring faster

tempo

of a battle hymn. [5] has best sound quality.

Do watch all 8 videos as they are not duplicates of each other

in the

chosen photos or movie clips of the German soldiers. I give a

short

description of each video.

Tom Mellett

Van Nuys, CA

==================================

(B/W = Black and White)

[1] Color still photos with German sub-titles. Each photo

expresses a

line of the song

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds>

com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds

<http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds&;

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds&>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds& ;>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds&%20%3chttp://www.youtube.com

/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds&> > &>

com/watch?v=IVpM8OPixds&> &

[2] B/W still photos, with English translation of each line in

sequence

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pj2EE5WNkw>

com/watch?v=6pj2EE5WNkw

[3] B/W & colorized MOVIE CLIPS, sung at very UPBEAT TEMPO

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMPUgaEEXQ>

com/watch?v=qpMPUgaEEXQ

[4] Actual B/W MOVIE CLIPS of soldiers marching, deploying,

shooting,

etc.

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c>

com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c

<http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c&NR=1

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c&NR=1>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c&NR=1 ;>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c&NR=1%20%3chttp://www.youtube

.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c&NR=1> > &NR=1>

com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c&NR=1> &NR=1

[5] Good color still photos, no words, but BEST SOUND QUALITY!

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo>

com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo

<http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo&;

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo&>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo& ;>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo&%20%3chttp://www.youtube.com

/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo&> > &>

com/watch?v=tq94CsnSIFo&> &

=======================================

[6] Posted by German. B/W still photos, all corpses or scenes of

destruction

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24ssJzAtlD0>

com/watch?v=24ssJzAtlD0

[7] Posted by German. B/W still photos, almost all are living

caring

for wounded.

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8>

com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8

<http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8&NR=1

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8&NR=1>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8&NR=1 ;>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8&NR=1%20%3chttp://www.youtube

.com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8&NR=1> > &NR=1>

com/watch?v=1lh_mJzDrC8&NR=1> &NR=1

[8] B/W still photos, no corpses, only positive military

situations

http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI>

com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI

<http://www.youtube. ;<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI&NR=1

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI&NR=1>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI&NR=1 ;>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI&NR=1%20%3chttp://www.youtube

.com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI&NR=1> > &NR=1>

com/watch?v=fWQBSbkaTQI&NR=1> &NR=1

===============================

(Poem written in 1809 by German poet Ludwig Uhland and set to

music

by Swiss composer Friedrich Silcher in 1825)

=====================

Ich hatt' einen Kameraden,

Einen bessern findst du nit.

Die Trommel schlug zum Streite,

Er ging an meiner Seite

In gleichem Schritt und Tritt.

Eine Kugel kam geflogen,

Gilt's mir oder gilt es dir?

Ihn hat es weggerissen,

Er liegt mir vor den Füßen,

Als wär's ein Stück von mir.

Will mir die Hand noch reichen,

Derweil ich eben lad.

Kann dir die Hand nicht geben,

Bleib du im ew'gen Leben

Mein guter Kamerad!

======================

My literal translation:

-------------------------

I once had a comrade

You will never find a better one!

The drums beat for battle.

He went right at my side

with equal gait and stride.

A bullet came flying

Meant for me or meant for you?

It tore him apart

He lies at my feet

As if he was a piece of me.

He still wants to give me his hand

All the while I am reloading:

"I cannot give you my hand!

So stay in eternal life,

My good Comrade,

My good Comrade!"

============================================

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--

When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe, there can be no

doubt. But that is not what great ships are built for.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Allisons letter

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