RE: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1300
- From: "Gary Stuart" <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:18:04 -0800
Dearest Leah,
Thanks so much for reminding us all of the depth that Bert inspires us to
experience AND your eloquent description of your profound experience. I see
us as Gardeners, we are watering delicate flowers of a family system that
long withered & dried up in grief and pain. By adding "inclusion and the
Un-Conditional Love of equanimity" it renews its bloom right before our eyes
and in the soul of everyone in the room. We are truly blessed as our groups
attending this work and humanity as a Whole.
Namaste Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of leah matalon
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:59 AM
To: No Reply; ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1300
Constellation TalkMy Dear Sneh and all
I'd like to add Bert's voice to this wonderful exchange by paraphrasing some
of
his teaching in Louisville about perception.
He said:
"When I see a beautiful landscape and I take it into my soul, what happens?
am I strong enough?"
He said he looked at a mighty mountain and wanted to expose himself to that
mountain. had all the questions in his head about how high it is, how long
would it
take to climb it etc. the judgments that come in between.
" It is a great discipline to expose yourself to something in front of you.
You have to stay
without images. Then something happens - what is in front of us comes close
and we
become one with it.
We can expand the reach of our perception like this. Look at a person
without images or
details. We reach an understanding of that person. We become one.
The same applies to the Spirit/MInd - that movement takes hold of us at any
moment.
Movements of the Spirit/Mind are working at every moment, in every cell in
our body
in a surprising way"
Yesterday in a Constellation I could feel the soul of the mother I was
representing move
through me, reaching to the daughter she had given away almost from birth to
six years.
I opened myself to it and everything was distilled, sparkling like a
crystal, her grief, her love.
I just held it there for her and the power of her love reached through all
the years of hurt,
the rage, the distrust of the child/daughter and brought her to her mother's
arms.
Learning about how to love,
Learning through constellations to see the essence of the human beings we
work with
and take them into our hearts. There is the gold.
Thank you for this wonderful dialogue.
Leah
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Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:50 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1300
Constellation Talk
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Messages In This Digest (3 Messages)
1.1. Nightsailing<about:blank#1.1> From: Franz Kalab
2a. To be a ´Mensch´<about:blank#2a> From: Franz Kalab
3a. Re: Holotrophic breathing<about:blank#3a> From: Rita Martino
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1.1. Nightsailing
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/5431;_ylc=X3oDMTJxa
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Posted by: "Franz Kalab" franz@xxxxxxxx <mailto:franz%40kalab.nl>
<mailto:franz@xxxxxxxx ;<mailto:franz%40kalab.nl> > franzkalab
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/franzkalab>
Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:24 am (PST)
From Eagle´s finger tip
And Eagle Owl´s palm
Hawk and Night-Hawk rose
From Abalones´ womb
Sweetgrass and Wild Sage
In our dance of honour
Of the receiving and the giving
Your right hand comes into mine
While my head bows over thine
In blissful gratitude
As a black-red gleaming tulip
Anima unfolds my trembling chest
To freely feed on cool-sweet pearls
From bluish-white and sparkling night
Celestials of old
With feet and hands and intellect
I reach and grab their paths
And lightly laughing hold them tight
That know and see I might
When blindly I must sail
Dear Victoria,
Thank you so much for so enhancing ´my´ sailing metaphor. Even on the
largest interior lake of Europe, the Neusiedlersee, there seems to be
little need to tie into the celestial coordinates for orientation.
From Heyerdhal´s adventures, Weiner´s Trobrianders and Tolkien´s
Silmarillion I gained some understanding of the importance of stars
and planets for efficient orientations when navigating the seas at
night.
How precious to internalise the celestial paths, to see them even
when hidden behind clouds, or when vision must be elsewhere. Learning
what can´t be taught by thick volumes and still can be grasped in an
instant.
The Dutch philosopher Van Peursen discerns magic, ontological and
dynamic modes of consciousness. In the first, the boundaries between
self and environment are open and blurred. In the second the two are
closed and discerned, self stands opposite of the environment and
even of itself. In the third they are again closely and strongly
related and open towards another, without losing the own identity,
without forgetting the past.
The proposal to teach how to facilitate like a craft in an
apprenticeship may be part of an answer. For it requires not only
saturation with theory and according knowledge, but also a saturation
of praxis and saturation with the ´materials´ treated. Often, it
takes three years and more of daily work to make a journeyman...
Warm regards,
Franz
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>, Sneh Victoria
<sneh.victoria@...> wrote:
Hi Franz,
your metaphor of "sailing through a session" is more than helpful,
it
is precious.
I would like to add a picture I found on Hawaii: the old true
sailors
knew how to find the moon and the stars (for orientation) inside
themselves, when the weather was such that no stars nor moon could
be
seen.
To aim for learning how to do this in constellations could be the
most worth while endeavor for us to follow. And the most
challenging
one as well, as it cannot be taught with the tools we are
currently
using. Good metaphors can be helpful, as is yours. I hope this
could
be the beginning of a thread about how to teach constellation.
I am glad you took the time to write, please continue. Sneh
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2a. To be a ´Mensch´
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Posted by: "Franz Kalab" franz@xxxxxxxx <
mailto:franz%40kalab.nl>
<
mailto:franz@xxxxxxxx ;<
mailto:franz%40kalab.nl> ?Subject=
Re%3ATo%20%20be%20a%20%B4Mensch%B4> franzkalab
<
http://profiles.yahoo.com/franzkalab>
Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:18 am (PST)
Victoria,
Sure I am still with you when you comes to "first be a 'Mensch'" (a
human). For what else and for what more? I still feel Tomás´
handshake and others', too. Smile.
Self acceptance, loving yourself, authenticity, not caring for
success, nor fearing failure either... beyond right and wrong.
Knowing that technique is just what it is, and that even spirituality
can be self-deception. From the eye of the human hurricane...
I seem to be just one of those who did not want to become a
facilitator, but to work on own issues overdue, which I continue.
Why or what for do I offer
. to facilitate a constellation for another?
. constellations to groups?
. training in constellations?
Kind regards,
Franz
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<
mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>, Sneh Victoria
<sneh.victoria@...> wrote:
[... fk]
Something more: in most of my trainings I had someone who only
took
part for their own good, without wanting to become a facilitator-
and
invariably they were at the end amongst the most accomplished.
Could it be that the most important part about how to be a
facilitator is to first be a mensch, and that if we support this
before anything else, we support this work best?
Oh my, where am I going. Well: for everybody who is still with me
here, how about creating a training that has at it's core profound
learning about -meditation and mindfulness- about how to love
yourself so you can truly love the people who come to you- about
not
caring for success and not caring for failure either- about how to
reach the place where wright and wrong don't matter and so on.
This
could happen while learning about constellations, even through
constellations, and many other techniques too.
I am truly interested in knowing who has similar ideas, or
controversial ones.
I hope we can continue to inspire one another. It is already
happening to me with these last weeks' mails,
Sneh
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3a. Re: Holotrophic breathing
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Posted by: "Rita Martino" rita.martino@xxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:rita.martino%40yahoo.com> <
mailto:rita.martino@xxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:rita.martino%40yahoo.com> ?Subject= Re%3A%20Holotrophic%20breathing>
rita.martino <
http://profiles.yahoo.com/rita.martino>
Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:55 pm (PST)
Sneh;
I appreciated reading your post. It seems so right on for this heart/spirit
of mine. To be deeper with the SELF, not looking for the externals to
satisfy the little self's need or to resist the externals that don't satisfy
the selfs need. I like that you bring us back to the simplicities of
authenticity and the skill of compassion rendered to the "US". Thank you
much for your skills and for YOU> Rita Martino
Warm Regards,
Rita Ann Martino
awakeningfamilyconstellations.com
________________________________
From: Eve CONDAMINE <evecondamine@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:evecondamine%40aliceadsl.fr> <
mailto:evecondamine%40aliceadsl.fr>>
To: ConstellationTalk <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<
mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 3:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Holotrophic breathing
Hello everyone, and Sneh in particular (we have met in Paris
with Samaï)
Thank you for all your posts.
And special thanks for Chris Walsh for the CT.
It's very difficult for me to express myself in english
language.
So I read the posts with application and pleasure and great
interest.... It already takes me a long time to understand
the whole !
Goodbye and I hope all the best for everyone !
Dr Eve Condamine
---------- Initial Header -----------
From : ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
To : <ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com>
Cc :
Date : Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:52:33 -0800
Subject : Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Holotrophic breathing
Dear Sneh
Thank you. You do dive deeply and all your posts have been
real treasures for me.
Please keep it coming!
hugs
Anutosh
----- Original Message -----
From: Sneh Victoria
To: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
Cc: Sneh Victoria
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:16 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Holotrophic breathing
Hi everyone, and Blanche in particular: welcome!
just when I lately was thinking a lot about all the great
techniques
I experienced and learned in my life, for instance breath
work,:
rebirthing, holotropic breathing- it shows up in CT!
Interesting!
In the late 70th I did a long workshop with Stan Grof and
his future
wife. The title was: "Birth, Sexuality and Death". It was
- besides
many things - like an initiation into a deeper place of
being, the
beginning of a spiritual path.
At no point did I feel re-traumatized, even though I did
dive into 2
major traumas of my own. I came through and ended in one
of my
deepest religious experiences ever.
Years later I trained at my indian masters ashram in
something
called: breath awareness, where we used stronger than
usual breathing
together with witnessing. The main point was the
meditation part in
it, to not loose the watcher while encountering strong
emotions. Also
there I did not see anybody being traumatized through the
process.
And yet, I would expect this today, after a 3 year long
training in
Somatic Experiencing and quite a few workshops with Peter
Levine and
all my learning about the the ways the nervous system works.
This leaves me believing:
It is not the technique, but the ones using them: "US" and
also the
environment, where we do what we do. A place has a soul, many
experienced this in constellations. Anne Ancelin
Schützenberger ("Oh,
my ancesters") and Rupert Sheldrake (in many books) hint
in this
direction, even though with many different words.
My same traumas had their day also in constellation work,
when
different layers of the old stories showed up some 15
years ago and
again during the SE training last year.
I would not wonder, if they showed up again at some other
junction of
my life, like sign posts, to keep me interested in my own
life´s story.
What was the most important learning from all of it for
me: None of
the methods were better or safer, or brought more inside
to me- they
simply were the right ones at their time- and I just seem
to feel the
most at home with working with "putting in scenes", placing
constellations, having people as vessels of feeling- sensing-
understanding, sharing their inside...
(Who knows, maybe tomorrow I might want to apply breathing
into
working in constellations. )
This all leaves me (again) wondering: what is it than,
that we as
trainers can teach about how to be a constellation
facilitator?
Aside from all that can be read and experienced in doing
your own
constellations, what are the qualities most needed in
working with
people?
Something more: in most of my trainings I had someone who
only took
part for their own good, without wanting to become a
facilitator- and
invariably they were at the end amongst the most accomplished.
Could it be that the most important part about how to be a
facilitator is to first be a mensch, and that if we
support this
before anything else, we support this work best?
Oh my, where am I going. Well: for everybody who is still
with me
here, how about creating a training that has at it's core
profound
learning about -meditation and mindfulness- about how to love
yourself so you can truly love the people who come to you-
about not
caring for success and not caring for failure either-
about how to
reach the place where wright and wrong don't matter and so
on. This
could happen while learning about constellations, even
through
constellations, and many other techniques too.
I am truly interested in knowing who has similar ideas, or
controversial ones.
I hope we can continue to inspire one another. It is already
happening to me with these last weeks' mails,
Sneh
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dr Eve CONDAMINE
10, Quai Eustache Chappuis
F-74000 ANNECY
33 (0)4 50 45 50 71
evecondamine@ aliceadsl. fr
site : www.consteller. net
http://sms.informat<
http://sms.informat/> iquefrance. com
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http://abonnement.<
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d.Accès Internet
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