Hi Anni, Sadhana, Dan, Stephan, Hi All
Thank you For sharing your toughts - and feelings, which can be sensed
behind the toughts, your insights
and experience .
I will try to share with you from my experience - and ask forgiveness for my
English.
In the same time, I wish to recommend you very interesting teachings about
love,
about "one point in the heart" - that contains the "Divine
Sparkle" when our energy
(or energetic body) materialized. Being aware of this point - we can feel
the love and connect
to all people in the world "We are one,we are all connected" I believe we
all heard these words.
The American natives know, believe and teach that from ancient time.
These teachings come from the Kabbalah, and they speak about Love, about
the times to come, as you mentioned Anni.
And what are we, in the constellations, talking about?
"Orders of Love", of course.
The Kabbalah speaks also about "order" - the order that exists in the
univers, in our world, in our lives.
What we "intend" to do? To make order "organize' - to make it possible for
every family memeber to take back his "right" place.
*"Although its origins are rooted in deep antiquity, from the time of
ancient Babylon, the wisdom of Kabbalah has remained virtually hidden from
humanity since it appeared more than four thousand years ago. To this very
day, only a few know what Kabbalah really is."*
* *
www.kabbalah.info
What is Kabbalah?
*"The wisdom of Kabbalah is a scientific tool for studying the spiritual
world. To explore our world, we use natural sciences such as physics,
chemistry, and biology. But natural sciences study only the physical world
we perceive with our five senses. To fully understand the world we live in,
we need a research tool that can explore the hidden realm, that which our
senses cannot perceive. This tool is the wisdom of Kabbalah."*
We talk about "The Greater Force"
*"According to the wisdom of Kabbalah, reality consists of two forces, or
qualities: the desire to receive and the desire to bestow, to give. Since
the desire to bestow wants to give, it creates a desire to receive, hence
its more commonly used name the Creator. Therefore, the whole of creation,
including us, are manifestations of that desire to receive."*
**
We talk about " giving and taking", the balance between giving and taking,
"the parent give, the child takes".....balance between
taking and giving between wife and husband...
You wrote about a constellation about 2012.
The Kabbalah talks about the "times to come - the times of universal love".
I will stop here - Anyone interested in hearing more - you will find a lot
of lessons in the web side. (more than 39 languages).
To go down to earth: the reality is that most of the time I do not remember
the constellations that I facilitate
(more than 8 years now) Lately I try to write a few words after the
constellation is finished, and than I can remember.
In my experience - before each constellation I ask "The Greater Force - or
God" to use me as a tool,
or channel - to bring heeling to - and I say the name of the client. I am
NOT channelling - although I have nothing against it: Over the years I
understood that if I can learn something, I do not care where it comes from.
This private little prayer - if you want - keeps me absolutely "down to
earth", focused, and in service of
the system. And most of all - it keeps me humble. Intention to heal? I can
not heal anybody. I know that,
and I say that to the clients. What happens - comes from the system - and
probably with the help of the "Greater Force".
Yes, I like to see the "happy end" - it touches me deeply. A "good result
for the client - as it is in his inner image, comes from his conscious
awareness. He can not "know" what will come out from his right side of his
brain, what his family system will bring to his consciousness. He can not
know this feeling of deep inner peace - before he gets in touch with
it. The issue a person wants to solve, and what the constellation shows to
be more important "now" can be very different. I will give you an example: A
woman about 50 came to work on her connection with her mother. She is not
married, and she has a child from sperm donation, and she is very happy with
the child. What showed up was the child's missing "father" - the child was
completely lost, he could not see anyone, he could not find a solid ground.
At the end - the woman realized - that she has no more problems - that she
could not imagine - "in a thousand years" what she just realized.
For me, it happens when we - or the client - stops fighting - then I can
see that deep quiet serenity, calmness.
I remember my own constellations - and that feeling of inner peace, where
any noise could not interfere.
I met today one of my clients - she had a constellation more than 2 years
ago. It was about her relationship with her mother.
She was angry with her mother who does not see her. Her father committed
suicide when she was 9 years old - after one of the endless wars here in
Israel - after he lost most of his soldiers in the battle. The history of
the family of origin of the mother was also complicated. In the
constellation the client met her Father - and could connect to him, and saw
the pain of the mother. She could release her anger towards her mother.
I met her after a few months and she hugged me an sayd that she loved her
mother. Today - she told me that she respects her mother because of all the
work she did - after 35 years - she let her husband go : she invited me to
see the movie her mother did
in respect to her husband .
What can I say? I love what happens, I respect what the "system" does in
order to heal. I love to see the waves that spread more and more in the
family - and in larger circles.
It is intention? It is - and most of all - I believe it is trust.
Some times - there are systems that do not allow any entrance. I respect
that - I explain to the clients, and it is o.k.
with them.
A few times - I wanted to help very much - and invited people to the
workshop. They even did constellations. But I realized
that they were not ready. My intentions could not "help". There are not
shortcuts - you can "help" - only when somebody is ready, and is asking for
help.
( I know Dan, that your clients come to you for help, and pay you for that.
As all our clients do.)
Greetings from Israel
With respect
Caterina
--
Caterina Farkash
www.familyconstellations.co.il
caterinafarkash@xxxxxxxxx
04 9835095 0522 488795
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:29 AM, <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Constellation Talk
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk;_ylc=X3oDMTJkamY3OWFoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQMxMjcwNDU2MTQ0>
Messages In This Digest (10 Messages)
1a. Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and
Man<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_1a>From:
Maria Luiza Tepedino Martins 1b.
Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and
Man<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_1b>From:
noel linehan 1c.
Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and
Man<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_1c>From:
Asociacion Primal 1d.
Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and
Man<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_1d>From:
Asociacion Primal 2a.
Re: the nature of
movements<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_2a>From:
Kay Needham 2b.
Re: the nature of
movements<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_2b>From:
henpather@xxxxxxx 2c. Re: the nature of
movements<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_2c>From:
Stephen Campbell 3.1.
Re: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on
Constellations<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_3.1>From:
Christine Wilson 3.2.
Re: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on
Constellations<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_3.2>From:
Stephen Campbell 4.
Thanks to you
all<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#127cd166446f4440_4>From:
henpather@xxxxxxx
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Messages
1a. Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and Man
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/6472;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdDUxOHNjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzY0NzIEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI3MDQ1NjE0NA-->
Posted
by: "Maria Luiza Tepedino Martins" tepedinoml@xxxxxxxxxx
<tepedinoml@xxxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%202012%3A%20The%20Sun%2C%20The%20Earth%2C%20The%20Galaxy%2C%20Consciousness%20and%20Man>
Sun
Apr 4, 2010 3:08 am (PDT)
I'm very interested about ocnstelation abouto 2012, how can I get it?
thank you
Marai Luiza
Brasilia - Brazil
----- Original Message -----
From: Asociacion Primal
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:47 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy,
Consciousness and Man
Hi !
We have translated to English the Constellation about 2012: The Sun, Earth,
Consciousness, The Galaxy and Man.
(Barcelona, March 7, 2010)
A Family Constelation to Understand
www.campodeconocimiento.com/constelaciones.html
Kind Regards from Spain,
Asociacion Primal
www.primal.es
www.constelacionesfamiliares.es
www.campodeconocimiento.com
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1b. Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and Man
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/6474;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODdwOHJmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzY0NzQEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI3MDQ1NjE0NA-->
Posted
by: "noel linehan" noelinehan@xxxxxxxxxx
<noelinehan@xxxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%202012%3A%20The%20Sun%2C%20The%20Earth%2C%20The%20Galaxy%2C%20Consciousness%20and%20Man>
Sun
Apr 4, 2010 3:14 am (PDT)
Hi, my name is Noel Linehan and I am interested in this translation but
have not been able to find it when I logged on to that site. Can you give
any more explicit directions please, Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Asociacion Primal
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:47 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy,
Consciousness and Man
Hi !
We have translated to English the Constellation about 2012: The Sun, Earth,
Consciousness, The Galaxy and Man.
(Barcelona, March 7, 2010)
A Family Constelation to Understand
www.campodeconocimiento.com/constelaciones.html
Kind Regards from Spain,
Asociacion Primal
www.primal.es
www.constelacionesfamiliares.es
www.campodeconocimiento.com
----------------------------------------------------------
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1c. Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and Man
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/6475;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGJibTZ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzY0NzUEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI3MDQ1NjE0NA-->
Posted
by: "Asociacion Primal" primal@xxxxxxxxx
<primal@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%202012%3A%20The%20Sun%2C%20The%20Earth%2C%20The%20Galaxy%2C%20Consciousness%20and%20Man>
Sun
Apr 4, 2010 4:27 am (PDT)
Hi Noel,
I have tried the link twice and it works fine:
http://www.campodeconocimiento.com/constelaciones.html
If you keep having problems, I can send you the text directly by email.
Kind Regards,
Angelo Alvarez
----- Original Message -----
From: "noel linehan" <noelinehan@xxxxxxxxxx <noelinehan%40eircom.net>>
To: <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy,
Consciousness and Man
Hi, my name is Noel Linehan and I am interested in this translation but
have not been able to find it when I logged on to that site. Can you give
any more explicit directions please, Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Asociacion Primal
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:47 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy,
Consciousness and Man
Hi !
We have translated to English the Constellation about 2012: The Sun,
Earth,
Consciousness, The Galaxy and Man.
(Barcelona, March 7, 2010)
A Family Constelation to Understand
www.campodeconocimiento.com/constelaciones.html
Kind Regards from Spain,
Asociacion Primal
www.primal.es
www.constelacionesfamiliares.es
www.campodeconocimiento.com
----------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2726 - Release Date: 03/06/10
07:39:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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1d. Re: 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy, Consciousness and Man
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/6476;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdjZkbWxvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzY0NzYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI3MDQ1NjE0NA-->
Posted
by: "Asociacion Primal" primal@xxxxxxxxx
<primal@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%202012%3A%20The%20Sun%2C%20The%20Earth%2C%20The%20Galaxy%2C%20Consciousness%20and%20Man>
Sun
Apr 4, 2010 4:29 am (PDT)
Hi María,
Have you tried this link?
http://www.campodeconocimiento.com/constelaciones.html
If have any problems, I can send you the text directly by email.
Kind Regards,
Angelo Alvarez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maria Luiza Tepedino Martins"
<tepedinoml@xxxxxxxxxx<tepedinoml%40tba.com.br>
To: <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy,
Consciousness and Man
I'm very interested about ocnstelation abouto 2012, how can I get it?
thank you
Marai Luiza
Brasilia - Brazil
----- Original Message -----
From: Asociacion Primal
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:47 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] 2012: The Sun, The Earth, The Galaxy,
Consciousness and Man
Hi !
We have translated to English the Constellation about 2012: The Sun,
Earth,
Consciousness, The Galaxy and Man.
(Barcelona, March 7, 2010)
A Family Constelation to Understand
www.campodeconocimiento.com/constelaciones.html
Kind Regards from Spain,
Asociacion Primal
www.primal.es
www.constelacionesfamiliares.es
www.campodeconocimiento.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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2a. Re: the nature of movements
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Posted
by: "Kay Needham" familyconstellationinfo@xxxxxxxxx
<familyconstellationinfo@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%20the%20nature%20of%20movements>
sadhana_needham <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sadhana_needham> Sun
Apr 4, 2010 3:10 am (PDT)
Hello Anni,
It is nice to feel your love and presence in the silence of this time. I
wake every morning to check my emails before plodding off to work nursing
every day. There is not a morning when I donât acknowledge the world wide
family constellation family. The Knowing Field magazines live on the shelf
beside my computer with an assortment of Bertâs books. A few days ago I
was reading Kari Dragesetâs article about domestic pets in systemic
constellations. I couldnât help but look a little deeper into the love I
have for my Samoyed dog Shae who is an escape artist! The last issue of the
Knowing Field was overflowing with the richness of personal experiences of
beloveds in this field. It was the 10th anniversary issue and was living
testimony to just how consciously creative this family is becoming, and
continues to be. This medium of sharing creates a vortex of connection to
the present and presence of family constellation world wide. The heart was
certainly bursting through every page in this issue. It was an absolute
delight to read! A huge thankyou to Barbara Morgan and friends for their
continuous committed effort in bringing such and informed, educational,
interesting and artistic magazine to the world.
This morning I was glancing through Bertâs âWith God In mindâ and
found myself reflecting upon âpositive anticipation.â
Your email Anni is full of positive anticipation and thankyou for sharing
it with us.
Positive anticipation to me is the secret of Sophieâs smile and saying
yes to life. To me this is being in tune with natures movements.
This morning I was glancing through Bertâs âWith God In mindâ and
found myself reflecting upon âpositive anticipation.â
âHow is this accomplished? Through anticipation of good fortune, by
expecting a good outcome from our encounters with others and from the course
of our own life. We are not talking about a possible kind of waiting which
takes the good and the bad in a naïve form of fatalism or a helpless kind of
suspicious state of mind. We mean an active opening of the heart, a joy we
spread when we find the good in others, when success and good fortune happen
to someone. This active attitude creates a genuine friendliness which is
contagious, just as much so as suspicion. If we walk through life with this
shared joy of the good as we experience it in others, our own fate receives
more and more blessings.â
Taken from âWith God In Mindâ P 92â Bert Hellinger
Love Sadhana
________________________________
From: anni <annimukkala@xxxxxxxx <annimukkala%40yahoo.ca>>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 9:50:39 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] the nature of movements
I think that it is not insignificant that it has been very quiet here for a
few weeks. There is a natural ebb and flow to the movements of constellation
work and to the discussions I see here.
The opening of doors also includes a time for the reflection of what it is
we encounter beyond that door. Often the new things we begin to see draw us
into a haze and a feeling that we are moving through a deep cloud. Insights
are such that as we move into the wider scope of the movement we are held
what seems like a dark inner space although in reality the space is where we
find our deepest enlightenment.
The movement away from the intellectual and into the heart of matters is
more often than not a quiet time. Intellectualizing things can often be
boisterous and energetic while the contemplative movements of deep insight
are filled with quiet and felt energy not the focused outward movement of
energy that is driven in our intellect.
I wonder, if like me, some of you are in the midst of insightful times that
flutter like minute butterflies in the caverns of your heart. I think the
quiet is very beautiful. I feel that our constellation community is sitting
together in a great peace and movement toward something deeper and fuller.
It is as though we sit quietly together in awe of the fullness of life and
the depth of the time that has gone before and the breadth of the time that
is to come. Here we sit in the breath of this moment. All of us moving and
whispering the name of the the light that fills us. Love. Love. Love.
Love the subject. Love the object. Love the movement between.
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2b. Re: the nature of movements
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Posted
by: "henpather@xxxxxxx" henpather@xxxxxxx
<henpather@xxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%20the%20nature%20of%20movements> Sun
Apr 4, 2010 9:43 am (PDT)
Aloha to all,
I am new to this venue. I am currently working on my masters thesis which
includes the constellation work. I was unaware that there was a magazine
available. How can I subscribe?
Mahalo, Patty Herrera
Honokaa, HI
_henpather@xxxxxxx <_henpather%40aol.com>_
(mailto:henpather@xxxxxxx<henpather%40aol.com>)
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2c. Re: the nature of movements
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Posted
by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx
<coachuno@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%20the%20nature%20of%20movements>
elcoachuno
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/elcoachuno> Sun Apr 4, 2010 6:43 pm (PDT)
Patty,
You can write to Barbara Morgan at the following email address: "Barbara
Morgan" <theknowingfield@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <theknowingfield%40googlemail.com>>.
Barbara is the publisher and will
be delighted to facilitate a subscription to this amazing worldwide effort
that is published twice per year. Like Sadhana and others I treasure each
issue and to date we have been successful in getting it from UK to Peru
without a hitch.
Fondly,
Stephen
Stephen Campbell
Systemic Constellation Facilitator / Constelador Sistémico
MA, R.Sc.P., MPNLP (Health), ND (Candidate)
904.430.0248
888.303.2636
51.1.447.6652
51.1.995.512.315
coachuno@xxxxxxxxx <coachuno%40gmail.com>
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 12:43, <henpather@xxxxxxx <henpather%40aol.com>>
wrote:
(mailto:henpather@xxxxxxx ;<henpather%40aol.com><henpather%40aol.com>)
Aloha to all,
I am new to this venue. I am currently working on my masters thesis which
includes the constellation work. I was unaware that there was a magazine
available. How can I subscribe?
Mahalo, Patty Herrera
Honokaa, HI
_henpather@xxxxxxx <_henpather%40aol.com> <_henpather%40aol.com>_
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3.1. Re: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on Constellations
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Posted
by: "Christine Wilson" christinewilson3@xxxxxxxxx
<christinewilson3@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%20AW%3A%20%5BConstellationTalk%5D%20Research%20on%20Constellations>
Sun
Apr 4, 2010 1:35 pm (PDT)
That's really good learning, Sheila - Thank you for that. I don't know how
to reply to the whole group - I had to change my email and have been quiet
on CTalk for a long time, but still busy doing workshops and other work; I
learn so much from the Field as long as I am open to the present and not
working with intention. Really good point about accepting what is rather
than pushing for "happy endings!" - I was also getting there since our
last workshop where quite repeatedly the "bow" seemed a good thing to do;
and mostly leaving it there - strange how sometimes I find our workshops
have similar patterns throughout the weekend.
All good wishes, Christine Wilson Hemel Hempstead, UK
________________________________
From: sheila saunders
<peacefulcentre@xxxxxxxxxxx<peacefulcentre%40hotmail.com>
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<constellationtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 4 April, 2010 0:45:56
Subject: RE: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on Constellations
Dan, et al,
I don't tend to apply judgement to historic events, "It was tragic." or
"It was a tragedy." For who?
The one it happened to? It's been found that it is likely they did it out
of love for a parent or other ancestor, blind love, maybe, but love
nonetheless, OR maybe to bring the family's attention to an excluded person
or excluded people; whatever the pressure, each person is able to handle
their own "fate".
or "tragic" for the child, for instance, of a mother who dies in
childbirth? How can the giving or getting of life be a tragedy? Mothers give
life at the risk of their own. Every time. How can the outcome be tragic? "I
take it at the price it cost you and the price it cost me."
It is wonderful that your client came to the realization, "I am blessed."
He always was; your description tells me he was showing his loyalty to his
ancestors in the way that would yield the least guilt: "If you can't live, I
won't either." That way, he stays loyal to them; he "belongs" to his family.
"Living" will require that he tolerate guilt. (And in his own life, he
survived Vietnam, and his buddies died. This event is much closer to him
than the fates of his ancestors - an event in his own life where "If you
can't live, I won't either" applies.)
In general, I'm on guard for my judgments; I don't equate "heavy fates"
with "tragedy". I also don't think it's "events" that overwhelm, but rather
the re-triggering of physical responses to those events. In your client's
case, he did not personally experience the events of the past but he did
experience Vietnam - that alone could stimulate his withdrawal, and could be
an avenue to look at his own choices and the consequences of them. I tend to
address the most recent event and move backwards from there a step at a
time.
As for the perspective of "intention" in therapy, I see it actually as
correlated with "attachment"; the therapist aims not to "attach" either to
their own imagined best outcome, or to the client's "story." For me, I hope
only to provide a window for the client to see deeper into him or herself
than they may have been able to before; perhaps they will see the love
behind their actions. Maybe they'll see something else. I never know what
they will see or where they will go; I follow them, shedding light on forks
in the road when I see them. Then they choose and I follow again. When they
end up where they are headed, they sometimes ask again what the other
options are. I know some options, and offer them.
Finally, I could never handle the pressure of "being paid to heal". There
are lots of reasons for contacting a therapist and everyone has one. In my
own life, I tend to look for freedom rather than happiness; I see "freedom"
as a state of being and "happiness" as an emotion - one emotion out of
billions. As for emotions, I can only hope to have each and every possible
one pass through me at one time or another. As for freedom, I can only hope
to live as often and as fully in that state as possible. Since that is my
orientation, clients who are looking for freedom, whether they know it or
not, tend to feel more satisfied after our work, than those looking for
"happiness" - it's just too darn hard to pin any one emotion down for good
since emotion doesn't work that way. But "healing" them?? or "being healed"?
Yikes! Neither works for me.
Love having this forum to bat these ideas around!
all the best, sheila
Family Constellation Workshops/Fletcher, NC ~ May 8/June 26/Aug 28/Oct
23/Dec 11 ~ $125/10am - 6pm
Sheila Saunders, RN, LMFT
www.systemicfamilysolutions.com
PO Box 1011 Weaverville, North Carolina 28787
828-273-5015
"When we have passed a certain age, the soul of the child we were and the
souls of the dead from whom we have sprung come to lavish on us their riches
and their spells." -Marcel Proust (In Search of Lost Time)
EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
From: danbcohen@xxxxxxx <danbcohen%40rcn.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 10:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on Constellations
Dear Johannes -
Your response provokes a lot interesting thoughts. Of the many gifts
from my trainers was encouragement to find my own way of using
Constellations. Here in Boston, there are 4 facilitators who trained in
the Bert Hellinger USA training in 2001. Since, no others have launched
successful practices. Three-quarters of my work is by telephone/Skype
for individuals around the US and in other countries. This is partly
why Constellation Talk is so important for me as I find my own way to
serve and heal.
You write, "I see too much healing intention" and "I am very careful
with the intention to heal." I understand that your perspective comes
from Germany where there are thousands of therapists and healers using
Constellations.
Recognizing that I cannot properly orient myself in the context of your
"too much," I do carry a very strong intention - what I call
"determination" to provide profound and lasting benefits to my clients.
If I have no intention to change the client's issue, what am I being
paid for?
Because there is no awareness of Constellations in Boston, about 3/4 of
my work is by telephone/Skype for people throughout the US and around
the world. Clients come to me with issues, problems, or situations -
something in their lives that is a source of discomfort and suffering.
I ask them, "What would a good result look like?" This provides the
target at which I aim. My intention is to provide an experience that
profoundly impacts the problem and leads toward the desired outcome.
Facing the target, I apply all my focus and determination. There is
always a financial transaction (except in prison and the like). I am
being paid to heal and it becomes my intention to do so.
Recently in a group, a man presented his issue as feeling completely
isolated. He exists in a bubble of solitude. He lives by himself in a
small trailer in the woods. He works occasionally for a temp agency
cleaning offices at night, just enough to pay for food and basic
necessities. When I asked about his family, he described decades of
harrowing circumstances and experiences - from having met his mother
only one time for 2 minutes as a young teen to being a veteran of the
Vietnam war. Of his 4 grandparents, one was a full Native American who
died in childbirth delivering his father, one was African American, the
descendant of a Black slave broker from the Deep South, and two were
European Jews who died in Nazi Concentration Camps.
I set up a Constellation-as-Ceremony. Four representatives stood in a
line as his grandparents. Behind them stood four representatives of the
ancient ancestors of the Jewish, African, and Native American lineages.
He stood silently in front of these 8 for several minutes. Then I asked
him to go to each of them and encounter them personally. For some, I
offer a sentence or two of context (e.g. with the grandmother who died
in childbirth I offered, "This may be the worst trauma in human
experience..."). For others, he and the representatives created the
moment without guidance. This took about 45 minutes and included some
other elements. By the end, he was overcome with emotion, seemingly
both laughing and crying and repeating many times, "I am blessed!"
A little while after the Constellation concluded, he asked me how to
maintain the feelings of joy and relief he experienced. I said that
these ancestors, once in his heart, would stay with him. They would be
his companions and bestow him with their blessings from now on.
This is an illustration of my intention. Without it as a guide, the
grandparents may have overwhelmed him with their immense tragedies. A
purely non-verbal encounter with these 4 carries the risk of an
unbearable avalanche of grief, loss, and torment. It is my intention to
uplift and relieve him of his great burden that guides the process to
remain safe.
I am very interested to know how you understand such use of intention.
I do not doubt the value of your observations. Nor do I mistrust how I
understand and use intention for safety and guidance. Most likely we
are speaking from different cultural and professional contexts.
Thanks for your contribution to my learning and our international
collective.
Dan
Johannes B. Schmidt wrote:
to
Dear Kay,
I have read your account below. And what touches me is the focus on shock
trauma and the idea of healing as well as the intentional quality of
intervention.
I have been working with trauma for several years and have been teaching
trauma trainings in several countries now. Therefore, I would like to
add a
few remarks:
1. Could it be that many people show distinct trauma signs also they
have never experienced a distinct shock trauma? In fact, early
developmental
trauma often develops not by what is done to us but by what is NOT done
us. Neglect can be subtle and the response-ability of a child'sdepending
organism to
the psychoemotional environment may be limited. Even well-intended
breast-feeding can leave a child with the feeling of abandonment
on where the mother's intention is during the nurturing.What
2. I see sometimes too much healing intention in trauma processes. The
facilitator's intent to heal can severely block in-depth processes of
self-relating in the client that makes in-depth healing impossible. I am
very careful with the intention to heal and very interested how
facilitators
can deepen their ever subtler listening and discerning skills to meet the
client where (s)he has never been met.
3. In my experience, healing shock trauma is a late step in the
healing process of individuals which requires more often than not many
prepatory skills and a gentleness that I have hardly ever found in any
therapist. Are we getting "trained" enough in gentleness,
non-invasiveness,
non-intentionality, self-love, non-doing, deep listening, being with what
presents itself without any intention to change it?
4. Sometimes more relevant than healing the trauma is to find a way to
deal with the residue of trauma that defies all healing attempts. What
kind
of holding can we offer for those trauma imprints that do not change?
do we have to offer where our healing intent and technique comes to its
limits?
5. What are the limits of constellation work with regard to trauma. My
experience is that constellations have to be used in almost the
opposite way
than family constellations to effectively meet a traumatized person.
As this
statements exceeds what I can write here I refer you to my book: "Inner
navigation -- traumahealing and constellational process work as
navigational
tools for the evolution of your true self", Chapter 6
6. What are we in touch with? With a healing system? With
constellation work or GNM or the often very delicate, fine, fragile inner
situation of an unheard or invaded client? Can we hold our own
suffering as
facilitators? How do we regulate ourselves in the face of traumatic
dysregulation, overwhelm, despair, or panic?
7. What are the risks of resolving trauma via trance? What skills does
a facilitator need? Don't we rather need a faculty of de-trancing the
client
into the here-and-now? What are the risks of regression?
Just some additional thoughts to your sharing.
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3.2. Re: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on Constellations
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Posted
by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx
<coachuno@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=+Re%3A%20AW%3A%20%5BConstellationTalk%5D%20Research%20on%20Constellations>
elcoachuno <http://profiles.yahoo.com/elcoachuno> Sun Apr 4, 2010 5:55 pm
(PDT)
Christine and others,
You bring up a point that I think is extremely important and something that
can be overlooked in trainings. That is the Cinderella endings for a
Constellation. Most people who have an interest in learning to facilitate
Constellations come from the healing professions. The preconception is that
healing is a happy ending. Yet, I have found that the most profound healing
occurs when we as Facilitators are attentive to the Field and permit the
Field to dictate the most powerful point at which to conclude a
Constellation. I have learned to see the process as facilitation not a
direction where our principal intention is to be open, remain in that
vacant
space of non-judgement and attentive to the markers that the Field puts
before us. This can result in our "leaving it there" which would make the
Cinderella fable far from conclusive but provides the most coherent and
ecological solution for the client.
Fondly,
Stephen
Stephen Campbell
Systemic Constellation Facilitator / Constelador Sistémico
MA, R.Sc.P., MPNLP (Health), ND (Candidate)
904.430.0248
888.303.2636
51.1.447.6652
51.1.995.512.315
coachuno@xxxxxxxxx <coachuno%40gmail.com>
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 16:34, Christine Wilson
<christinewilson3@xxxxxxxxx <christinewilson3%40ymail.com>>wrote:
how
That's really good learning, Sheila - Thank you for that. I don't know
to reply to the whole group - I had to change my email and have beenquiet
on CTalk for a long time, but still busy doing workshops and other work;I
learn so much from the Field as long as I am open to the present and not<peacefulcentre%40hotmail.com>
working with intention. Really good point about accepting what is rather
than pushing for "happy endings!" - I was also getting there since our
last workshop where quite repeatedly the "bow" seemed a good thing to do;
and mostly leaving it there - strange how sometimes I find our workshops
have similar patterns throughout the weekend.
All good wishes, Christine Wilson Hemel Hempstead, UK
________________________________
From: sheila saunders
<peacefulcentre@xxxxxxxxxxx<peacefulcentre%40hotmail.com>
<constellationtalk%40yahoogroups.com>To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<constellationtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 4 April, 2010 0:45:56person
Subject: RE: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on Constellations
Dan, et al,
I don't tend to apply judgement to historic events, "It was tragic." or
"It was a tragedy." For who?
The one it happened to? It's been found that it is likely they did it out
of love for a parent or other ancestor, blind love, maybe, but love
nonetheless, OR maybe to bring the family's attention to an excluded
or excluded people; whatever the pressure, each person is able to handlegive
their own "fate".
or "tragic" for the child, for instance, of a mother who dies in
childbirth? How can the giving or getting of life be a tragedy? Mothers
life at the risk of their own. Every time. How can the outcome be tragic?"I
take it at the price it cost you and the price it cost me."his
It is wonderful that your client came to the realization, "I am blessed."
He always was; your description tells me he was showing his loyalty to
ancestors in the way that would yield the least guilt: "If you can'tlive, I
won't either." That way, he stays loyal to them; he "belongs" to hisfamily.
"Living" will require that he tolerate guilt. (And in his own life, herather
survived Vietnam, and his buddies died. This event is much closer to him
than the fates of his ancestors - an event in his own life where "If you
can't live, I won't either" applies.)
In general, I'm on guard for my judgments; I don't equate "heavy fates"
with "tragedy". I also don't think it's "events" that overwhelm, but
the re-triggering of physical responses to those events. In your client'sbe
case, he did not personally experience the events of the past but he did
experience Vietnam - that alone could stimulate his withdrawal, and could
an avenue to look at his own choices and the consequences of them. I tendto
address the most recent event and move backwards from there a step at ato
time.
As for the perspective of "intention" in therapy, I see it actually as
correlated with "attachment"; the therapist aims not to "attach" either
their own imagined best outcome, or to the client's "story." For me, Ihope
only to provide a window for the client to see deeper into him or herselfforks
than they may have been able to before; perhaps they will see the love
behind their actions. Maybe they'll see something else. I never know what
they will see or where they will go; I follow them, shedding light on
in the road when I see them. Then they choose and I follow again. Whenthey
end up where they are headed, they sometimes ask again what the othermy
options are. I know some options, and offer them.
Finally, I could never handle the pressure of "being paid to heal". There
are lots of reasons for contacting a therapist and everyone has one. In
own life, I tend to look for freedom rather than happiness; I see"freedom"
as a state of being and "happiness" as an emotion - one emotion out ofpossible
billions. As for emotions, I can only hope to have each and every
one pass through me at one time or another. As for freedom, I can onlyhope
to live as often and as fully in that state as possible. Since that is mygood
orientation, clients who are looking for freedom, whether they know it or
not, tend to feel more satisfied after our work, than those looking for
"happiness" - it's just too darn hard to pin any one emotion down for
since emotion doesn't work that way. But "healing" them?? or "beinghealed"?
Yikes! Neither works for me.riches
Love having this forum to bat these ideas around!
all the best, sheila
Family Constellation Workshops/Fletcher, NC ~ May 8/June 26/Aug 28/Oct
23/Dec 11 ~ $125/10am - 6pm
Sheila Saunders, RN, LMFT
www.systemicfamilysolutions.com
PO Box 1011 Weaverville, North Carolina 28787
828-273-5015
"When we have passed a certain age, the soul of the child we were and the
souls of the dead from whom we have sprung come to lavish on us their
and their spells." -Marcel Proust (In Search of Lost Time)<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
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To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
From: danbcohen@xxxxxxx <danbcohen%40rcn.com> <danbcohen%40rcn.com>shock
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 10:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: AW: [ConstellationTalk] Research on Constellations
Dear Johannes -
Your response provokes a lot interesting thoughts. Of the many gifts
from my trainers was encouragement to find my own way of using
Constellations. Here in Boston, there are 4 facilitators who trained in
the Bert Hellinger USA training in 2001. Since, no others have launched
successful practices. Three-quarters of my work is by telephone/Skype
for individuals around the US and in other countries. This is partly
why Constellation Talk is so important for me as I find my own way to
serve and heal.
You write, "I see too much healing intention" and "I am very careful
with the intention to heal." I understand that your perspective comes
from Germany where there are thousands of therapists and healers using
Constellations.
Recognizing that I cannot properly orient myself in the context of your
"too much," I do carry a very strong intention - what I call
"determination" to provide profound and lasting benefits to my clients.
If I have no intention to change the client's issue, what am I being
paid for?
Because there is no awareness of Constellations in Boston, about 3/4 of
my work is by telephone/Skype for people throughout the US and around
the world. Clients come to me with issues, problems, or situations -
something in their lives that is a source of discomfort and suffering.
I ask them, "What would a good result look like?" This provides the
target at which I aim. My intention is to provide an experience that
profoundly impacts the problem and leads toward the desired outcome.
Facing the target, I apply all my focus and determination. There is
always a financial transaction (except in prison and the like). I am
being paid to heal and it becomes my intention to do so.
Recently in a group, a man presented his issue as feeling completely
isolated. He exists in a bubble of solitude. He lives by himself in a
small trailer in the woods. He works occasionally for a temp agency
cleaning offices at night, just enough to pay for food and basic
necessities. When I asked about his family, he described decades of
harrowing circumstances and experiences - from having met his mother
only one time for 2 minutes as a young teen to being a veteran of the
Vietnam war. Of his 4 grandparents, one was a full Native American who
died in childbirth delivering his father, one was African American, the
descendant of a Black slave broker from the Deep South, and two were
European Jews who died in Nazi Concentration Camps.
I set up a Constellation-as-Ceremony. Four representatives stood in a
line as his grandparents. Behind them stood four representatives of the
ancient ancestors of the Jewish, African, and Native American lineages.
He stood silently in front of these 8 for several minutes. Then I asked
him to go to each of them and encounter them personally. For some, I
offer a sentence or two of context (e.g. with the grandmother who died
in childbirth I offered, "This may be the worst trauma in human
experience..."). For others, he and the representatives created the
moment without guidance. This took about 45 minutes and included some
other elements. By the end, he was overcome with emotion, seemingly
both laughing and crying and repeating many times, "I am blessed!"
A little while after the Constellation concluded, he asked me how to
maintain the feelings of joy and relief he experienced. I said that
these ancestors, once in his heart, would stay with him. They would be
his companions and bestow him with their blessings from now on.
This is an illustration of my intention. Without it as a guide, the
grandparents may have overwhelmed him with their immense tragedies. A
purely non-verbal encounter with these 4 carries the risk of an
unbearable avalanche of grief, loss, and torment. It is my intention to
uplift and relieve him of his great burden that guides the process to
remain safe.
I am very interested to know how you understand such use of intention.
I do not doubt the value of your observations. Nor do I mistrust how I
understand and use intention for safety and guidance. Most likely we
are speaking from different cultural and professional contexts.
Thanks for your contribution to my learning and our international
collective.
Dan
Johannes B. Schmidt wrote:
Dear Kay,
I have read your account below. And what touches me is the focus on
teachingtrauma and the idea of healing as well as the intentional quality of
intervention.
I have been working with trauma for several years and have been
amtrauma trainings in several countries now. Therefore, I would like toto
add a
few remarks:
1. Could it be that many people show distinct trauma signs also they
have never experienced a distinct shock trauma? In fact, early
developmental
trauma often develops not by what is done to us but by what is NOT done
us. Neglect can be subtle and the response-ability of a child'sdepending
organism to
the psychoemotional environment may be limited. Even well-intended
breast-feeding can leave a child with the feeling of abandonment
on where the mother's intention is during the nurturing.
2. I see sometimes too much healing intention in trauma processes. The
facilitator's intent to heal can severely block in-depth processes of
self-relating in the client that makes in-depth healing impossible. I
thevery careful with the intention to heal and very interested how
facilitators
can deepen their ever subtler listening and discerning skills to meet
whatclient where (s)he has never been met.
3. In my experience, healing shock trauma is a late step in the
healing process of individuals which requires more often than not many
prepatory skills and a gentleness that I have hardly ever found in any
therapist. Are we getting "trained" enough in gentleness,
non-invasiveness,
non-intentionality, self-love, non-doing, deep listening, being with
innerpresents itself without any intention to change it?What
4. Sometimes more relevant than healing the trauma is to find a way to
deal with the residue of trauma that defies all healing attempts. What
kind
of holding can we offer for those trauma imprints that do not change?
do we have to offer where our healing intent and technique comes to its
limits?
5. What are the limits of constellation work with regard to trauma. My
experience is that constellations have to be used in almost the
opposite way
than family constellations to effectively meet a traumatized person.
As this
statements exceeds what I can write here I refer you to my book: "Inner
navigation -- traumahealing and constellational process work as
navigational
tools for the evolution of your true self", Chapter 6
6. What are we in touch with? With a healing system? With
constellation work or GNM or the often very delicate, fine, fragile
situation of an unheard or invaded client? Can we hold our own
suffering as
facilitators? How do we regulate ourselves in the face of traumatic
dysregulation, overwhelm, despair, or panic?
7. What are the risks of resolving trauma via trance? What skills does
a facilitator need? Don't we rather need a faculty of de-trancing the
client
into the here-and-now? What are the risks of regression?
Just some additional thoughts to your sharing.
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