Hi Barbara,
I hoped someone would pick up on 'mistaken believes'.
My intent was, not to put too much into one post,
so I refrained from commenting on David's introduction of the term,
which may unfortunately appear as an endorsement.
It was tempting to wonder whether it is an oxymoron.
Or perhaps the other way around:
isn't every belief a mistaken one?
Believing, in the final analysis, is a euphemism
for not knowing, which is an unbearable state for us
so we make up something and call it 'belief.
(btw I like your:"not-knowing is the beauty and the high risk of
constellation work")
The rep's experience is real and her own the way it is.
I would not hazard to interpret it as a mistaken belief
regardless of how it is described afterwards.
If indeed some uncertainty arises within the rep
after the constellation, that confusion needs
to be dealt with separately, part of our job.
No, Barbara, I stay right clear from the area of belief;
-in times of Euro Soccer excitement, thanks for the pass.
Max
Hi Max,
I think you are dipping into the area of belief here. How do we really
know
what is happening when a representative steps into a constellation? You
say
the representative 'mistakenly' believes the experience to be theirs. How
do
we know whether that is a 'mistake' or whether at that moment in time,
there
is no boundary between that individual and the person they are
representing?
For me, this not-knowing is the beauty and the high risk of constellation
work and each facilitator needs to create an ethos and boundary which
feels
right for them, but none of us can say this is actually how it is.
I sat watching a group of rooks at the weekend. Initially there were three
of them and I thought to myself 'Oh it's parents teaching the young bird
how
to fly'. Then another bird came on the scene and then I thought 'Oh it's
males fighting over a female'. Then two more joined them and I thought 'Oh
they're just having fun together'. Then I realised what I was doing. I was
trying to put the experience into a box and make sense of it instead of
simply watching what was happening with these rooks without trying to
understand it.
Of course, you can argue that we have a responsibility to group members
when
running a workshop but how far that responsibility stretches both within
and
outside the workshop will vary enormously from facilitator to facilitator
and what they feel comfortable with.
Barbara
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Max Dauskardt <max@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Well David,
the issue still seems to be the same,
no need to downplay your introduction of 'intoxicating'
as 'being a little poetic'.
You, the native English speaker, applied the term spot on
according the definition as given in Answers.com :
"Intoxication is the state of being affected by
one or more psychoactive drugs.
It can also refer to the effects caused
by the ingestion of poison or by the
overconsumption of normally harmless substances."
The 'normally harmless substance' in our discussion is
the experience of a feeling.
We learned from neuroscience that feelings have a similar
effect on the brain's chemistry than do have drugs.
If a feeling is allowed to be experienced excessively
it can indeed lead to an intoxicated state
which then may have the effect you suspect below:
'the representitive mistakenly believes the experience to be theirs'.
Here again, it is the constellator's task to be right up to it,
to recognize what is going on with the rep and
restore the flow of the constellation.
Kenn, for that purpose, seems to suggest
to replace the rep when 'intoxicated', or are you not?
Best of course it is for the constellator
to be pro-active by devoting part of the
introduction at the workshop's beginning
to the phenomenon of representatives
experiencing feelings in parallel,
namely those of the one represented
and those of ones own.
Such a preparation and the subsequent
'being up with the ball' of the constellator
will go a long way towards 'intoxication' or 'mistaken belief'
not occurring.
Max
Melbourne, Australia
www.HarmonyInHumanSystems.com
Thanks Max - interesting comments, however the issue is not when therole
becomes intoxicating - here I was being a little poetic - but when therepresentitive mistakenly believes the experience to be theirs.
What I am saying is we should properly inform our clients.ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Max Dauskardt
To:
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:38 PMlove
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] RE: [Constellation Talk] Synthetic
wanting that role - thought it reasonable to alert participants to
David,
key word in your response to Gary's sensible comments
seems to be 'intoxicating'
When does the rep's experience become an 'intoxicating' one?
Perhaps that can only happen if and when
the constellator allows that to happen.
During a representation we bring in ourselves to some extent,
kind of processing something of our own on a parallel track.
Which of course is one of the beautiful aspects of the work.
It is the constellator's responsibility
to 'monitor' the state of the rep,
which includes an awareness of a possible 'intoxication'.
Is an 'intoxication' of the rep registered
chances are the rep has crossed the fine line
away from the one being represented into own stuff.
An appropriate response of the constellator then is:
"we have seen this now, you may wind back a bit"
which will most likely bring the rep back to being just that
and dissolve any 'intoxication' perhaps even 'synthetic love'.
Max
Melbourne, Australia
www.HarmonyInHumanSystems.com
Hi Gary - didn't suggest we audit adult behavior - there are plenty
the
too have never heard the issue raise before, not sure that meansdynamics at play so they can make informed decisions and choices. I
anything though, however, as a rep in 100's of constellations am
familiarappropriate we point out these experiences belong to someone else.
of the forces at play many of which are intoxicating - it seems
Here I am simply attempting to improve the quality of service we
provide -ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
under no circumstances am I trying to suggest we become 'moralpolice'.
Certainly interested in the input of others
All the best
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Stuart
To:
willingSent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:31 PMbehaviors"
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] RE: [Constellation Talk] Synthetic love
Dear David,
Is it our place as facilitators of this work to "order Adults
sexual or otherwise? Doesn't that cross a line of honor and respectwith
freedom to chose whatever one chooses..maybe I missed a memo duringall
mythis
trainings with Heinz Stark, Bert Hellinger etc. I've never heard of
in
the 10 years of my participating and facilitating consenting adults
assumeto heal on many levels other therapies don't touch etc. I generally
willif a rep is a rapist or perpetrator in any constellation that he
Field..Maybe you're a licensed psychotherapist perhaps? I know innot go
out and kill after his representation in someone else's systemic
America
generallythere are very rigid standards for them in their practice..I
consciencecomeneeds
from a more shamanistic, spiritual point of view etc. I think this
more clarification and feedback in general. So it is good for us tohave
appropriate boundaries and let the Rep's be guided by their own
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>and not the Facilitator's outside of the workshop experience?
Thanks Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Gary%40Chifield.com>
From:
On Behalf Of David Ward[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:18 PM
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>To:
chargedSubject: [ConstellationTalk] Synthetic love
We recently had a man and woman representing a couple in a highly
transformed the experience of those representing the couple.sexual atmosphere - a representative of love was introduced and this
of
The representatives were experienced with our work, however because
forthe
intensity of the roles I half jokingly said - no intimate contact
60the
days please!!clients
After that workshop I recalled the very brief relationship of 2
that
grew out of an earlier workshop, that was particularly painful for
thosewoman.recent
I was relaying this story to a member of Constellation Talk at a
peertalk.
group meeting and he suggest putting a report up on constellation
Experiences in constellations can be extremely powerful and for
'intimatewhoit
new to the work, don't understand the dynamics and/or are vulnerable
would be easy to misinterpret their experience. The 'synthetic love'of
arelationship
constellation may not be the ideal ground for a love/sexual
to
spring from.
Other workshop organisations insist participants don't engage in
thisrelationships' with other participants for 6 months after thecompletion
of
the workshop.
I feel we have responsibility here, we'll be alerting our clients to
phenomena in the future.
David Ward
Fresh Medicine
Healesville
Australia
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