Hi Everyone,
A classic case in my assessment of a “yes-and” conversation. Both views are
valid
and not mutually exclusive. The problem is so complex and multi-dimensional it
makes
sense that our response or responses would need to be both wide and deep.
The “who-benefits” question is interesting and does beg the question if there
are behind the scenes
power-broker pulling the psychic strings of a naïve populous. There are
organized groups
like the NRA who clearly benefit from the status quo and defend it quite
effectively. I think, however,
the answers are not about finding someone to blame but looking for the sources
of fear and anger in
individual and collective subconscious.
Sincerely
Harrison Snow
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: anngwyn@xxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk]
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 9:11 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Peace ?
Hello Robert,
The shift is likely generated by media and state sponsored fear....the real
agenda?
all for now...
Anngwyn
In a message dated 1/4/2016 10:22:19 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Hello Anngwyn and All,
For difficult, intractable problems multiple avenues of approach might have
some value. Even systemic constellation is relatively ineffectual on a larger
social scale and may take a long time to impact a culture. Fifty-five percent
of Americans say they want laws covering the sale of firearms to be stricter
than they are now, a distinct rise of eight percentage points from 2014.
Support for better gun laws increased even among those who say they own a
handgun, from 30% in 2014 to 36% this year. Should this shift in attitude be
ignored or like in traffic laws be part of a multi pronged solution?
Best wishes to all,
Robert
On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 2:48 PM, anngwyn@xxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Again,
All very interesting cross cultural food for thought...and still, the reality
remains that even if gun control laws are passed...which is not entirely likely
given the involvement of the gun lobbies with our legislators, probably at
least half of our citizens will not support anything close to a total ban and
this could give rise to a black market much like alcohol prohibition and our
thriving illegal drug trade.
Banning guns would not prevent suicides in Switzerland...they have a long
tradition of "going into the lake" (drowning with rocks in their pockets ) and
still today throw themselves under trains..and now assisted suicide is entirely
legal.
Again, the delusion is that the guns are the problem...or that liquor is the
problem or drugs or "illegal aliens " whatever...seems at first glance should
be banned, outlawed or otherwise eliminated...this is linear causality rather
than systemic thinking... Hellinger and others have offered us models to look
deeper into what is out of balance....that these tragically violent deaths
continue...in such great numbers...
Regards,
Anngwyn
In a message dated 1/4/2016 7:23:21 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Hello to All,
Maybe in some vicious cycles causes and symptoms are not separated by absolute
boundaries. For better or worse, laws do educate populations, and obviously it
will take more than passing laws to shift deep seated cultural attitudes.
Unlike the US in Switzerland existing laws better regulate the sale, ownership
and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed
weapons. The law allows citizens who have no criminal record or history of
mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorised dealer, with the
exception of automatic firearms, which are banned, and military ammunition must
be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. Guns are
responsible for between 200 and 300 suicides each year in Switzerland. One of
the reasons the crime rate in Switzerland is low despite the prevalence of
weapons — and also why the Swiss mentality can’t be transposed on the current
individualistic (lack of universal health insurance) American reality — is the
culture of responsibility, support and safety that is anchored in Swiss society
and passed from generation to generation.
Best wishes to all,
Robert
On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:12 PM, anngwyn@xxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Yes, confusing symptoms and the underlying causes is not likely to lead to
resolution...nor will the imposition of "laws"...we have an interesting and
complex dynamic unfolding now...but not only here in the USA...In Switzerland,
where I have happily lived and worked for many years, citizens are
individually and as a culture very heavily armed...and yet , this is not a
social problem..more evidence that guns are not the problem...only the symptom
of a pervasive underlying miasm here in USA... Students of history know that
outlawing alcohol during the prohibition era led to more violence because a
significant percentage of the populace did not agree and a black market economy
arose...same with the spurious, deeply corrupt "war on drugs"... outlawing is
not the solution, for alcohol, drugs or firearms...best to think systemically
and think more deeply into this massive social trauma...involving what is also
our military/industrial/ state sponsored , media complicit, national and
international violence....and who benefits ?
All for now...
Anngwyn
In a message dated 1/4/2016 5:40:41 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Hello All,
Gun laws in the US appear to reinforce the violent psyche of fear that drives
it. In the large scheme of things changing the laws may be more than just
treating the symptoms.
Best wishes,
Robert
On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 2:49 AM, anngwyn@xxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
While I am all for peace and not so fond of guns, from a systemic perspective,
guns are not the problem...only the symptom of the problem...We have always had
guns in this country....and as a social traumatologist, more problematic is
the trans-national epidemic of state-sponsored, media generated "fear porn "
designed to promote and accelerate " fear of the other "....and this inevitably
leads to all manner of violence as history as proven over and again. Confusing
the symptom with the problem is likely to lead only to more confusion. We might
ask: Who or what benefits from this current fear mongering epidemic that seeks
to exploit the darker aspects of tribal consciousness ?
I addressed this "fear porn " in my blog " Trauma and the Human Condition "
http://anngwyn.wisrville.org as "Our Year of Fear ". which may be of ;
interest....
Warm regards
Anngwyn St. Just Ph.D.
http://anngwyn.wisrville.org
www.acst-international.com
