Thanks for this Jan. I very much agree with you and adopt similar practice. As
a facilitator, rarely have I been faced with the need to de-role. (Often those
who ask for it in one way or another have their own issues to deal with, so I
offer them an opportunity to explore that). As a representative, I never have
wanted or would want to be de-roled. The strongest experiences I had during
representations taught me valuable lessons about myself and the world. What I
did with those insights and how I behaved afterwards as a result of these
insights I would not dare to hold any facilitator responsible for that! And
if any facilitator would want to claim responsibility for it (for good or bad
consequences) I would find that presumptuous. I also agree with you that the
process of representing should not be likened to the process of entanglement in
our own family system as they are very different in essence, dynamic, meaning
and function.
All the best
(and Ahoy to you and your country which I will visit soon)
Alemka
www.HarmonyInHumanSystems.com
Melbourne, Australia
--- On Tue, 6/24/08, Aliastar <aliastar@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Aliastar <aliastar@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] RE: [Constellation Talk] Synthetic love
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 9:11 AM
Hi Chris, hallo all,
I thing we have to tell apart two things.
Family system gives us (or we take over) roles and feelings because these
roles are not token, they are "vacant" or because we are bound to do so "for
the system (i.e. family) sake". As we are born in such system, we keep
usually these roles (feelings) for a long time. We are members of our
(family)system lifelong.
As reps we enter the system of the client for relatively short time. We do
this usually as long as the constellation goes on or the workshop lasts. We
can say we are a kind of visitors in an alien system.
So I don't see here primarily any need to care about lasting feelings - as
we properly step out of the role. If afterwards the representatives have
unpleasant feelings, my experience is they resonate with something the
constellation revealed in themselves and what they also posses. This is not
very bad as the constellation works in many directions, so for the reps
also. This also disappears with the time as the people work up what has
resonated.
In my whole praxis with more than five thousand constellations there have
been maybe only ten constellations in that the representative referred on
bad feelings which were obviously a result of some "role-sustaining" . In
these cases some rituals should be done. But I would not match the mechanism
of taking over feelings from the family and doing the same from a
constellation. So I would also say, the "intoxication" is a part of a
constellation work and we (at least in 99% of cases) automatically
"detoxicate" by leaving the client's system and stepping out of role. By the
way, at the end of each workshop I do small ritual of thanking to all
ancestors, helpers, forces, or other "entities" we invited. This has also a
nice "detoxication effect".
Ahoj... (means ciao, bye bye or adieu on Czech)
Jan
_____
From: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Walsh
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:19 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] RE: [Constellation Talk] Synthetic love
Hi all,
Thank you for having the courage to raise this issue David. When
representatives are left with unpleasant energy from a role it is now
common practice to do different rituals to help people let go of that
energy. This usually relies on the participant letting the facilitator know
they are suffering. However when participants have finished a constellation
experiencing strong sexual or romantic feelings this is often quite
pleasant. I have never seen a participant requesting to be de-roled from
this. Nonetheless I have seen it influencing subsequent behaviour.
I think it is reasonable to ask what implications this would have for a
relationship if it were based on these taken over representative feelings.
After all we know that when a person takes over feelings of someone else in
their family system that it leads to unhelpful and unskilful behaviour. Just
as family members are totally unaware they are acting on feelings that
belong to someone else in the system, it is entirely possible that
representatives could also act out of a similar lack of awareness. You would
think that a representatives taken over feelings would evaporate fairly
quickly as they usually do - but not always. So I think it is useful to
remind workshop participants of these possibilities as David suggests.
hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
webpage: <http://www.cwalsh. ;<http://www.cwalsh. com.au> com.au>
www.cwalsh.com. au
From: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:Constellati onTalk%40yahoogr oups.com>
yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Constellati onTalk@ ;<mailto:Constellati onTalk%40yahoogr oups.com>
yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kenn Day
Sent: Monday, 23 June 2008 11:34 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:Constellati onTalk%40yahoogr oups.com>
yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] RE: [Constellation Talk] Synthetic love
Max,
As both rep and a facilitator, I have encountered those whose
experience could easily be classified as "intoxicating" . It seemed to
me that this was usually because of the nature of the role and the way
in which the feelings they experienced as a rep fulfilled some deep
hunger of their own. The key in most of these cases appeared to be to
insure that they completely dropped the representation.
namaste,
Kenn
On Jun 23, 2008, at 4:38 AM, Max Dauskardt wrote:
David,yahoogroups. com
key word in your response to Gary's sensible comments
seems to be 'intoxicating'
When does the rep's experience become an 'intoxicating' one?
Perhaps that can only happen if and when
the constellator allows that to happen.
During a representation we bring in ourselves to some extent,
kind of processing something of our own on a parallel track.
Which of course is one of the beautiful aspects of the work.
It is the constellator' s responsibility
to 'monitor' the state of the rep,
which includes an awareness of a possible 'intoxication' .
Is an 'intoxication' of the rep registered
chances are the rep has crossed the fine line
away from the one being represented into own stuff.
An appropriate response of the constellator then is:
"we have seen this now, you may wind back a bit"
which will most likely bring the rep back to being just that
and dissolve any 'intoxication' perhaps even 'synthetic love'.
Max
Melbourne, Australia
www.HarmonyInHumanS ystems.com
Hi Gary - didn't suggest we audit adult behavior - there are plenty
wanting that role - thought it reasonable to alert participants to
the
dynamics at play so they can make informed decisions and choices.
I too have never heard the issue raise before, not sure that means
anything though, however, as a rep in 100's of constellations am
familiar
of the forces at play many of which are intoxicating - it seems
appropriate we point out these experiences belong to someone else.
Here I am simply attempting to improve the quality of service we
provide -
under no circumstances am I trying to suggest we become 'moral
police'.
Certainly interested in the input of others
All the best
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Stuart
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:Constellati onTalk%40yahoogr oups.com>
<mailto:Gary% 40Chifield. com>Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:31 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] RE: [Constellation Talk] Synthetic love
Dear David,
Is it our place as facilitators of this work to "order Adults
behaviors"
sexual or otherwise? Doesn't that cross a line of honor and
respect with
freedom to chose whatever one chooses..maybe I missed a memo
during all
my
trainings with Heinz Stark, Bert Hellinger etc. I've never heard
of this
in
the 10 years of my participating and facilitating consenting adults
willing
to heal on many levels other therapies don't touch etc. I generally
assume
if a rep is a rapist or perpetrator in any constellation that he
will
not go
out and kill after his representation in someone else's systemic
Field..Maybe you're a licensed psychotherapist perhaps? I know in
America
there are very rigid standards for them in their practice..I
generally
come
from a more shamanistic, spiritual point of view etc. I think this
needs
more clarification and feedback in general. So it is good for us
to have
appropriate boundaries and let the Rep's be guided by their own
conscience
and not the Facilitator' s outside of the workshop experience?
Thanks Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@Chifield. <mailto:Gary% 40Chifield. com> com
yahoogroups. com
From: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:Constellati onTalk%40yahoogr oups.com>
yahoogroups. com[mailto:Constellati onTalk@ ;<mailto:Constellati onTalk%40yahoogr oups.com>
yahoogroups. comSent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:18 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:Constellati onTalk%40yahoogr oups.com>
<mailto:max% 40souldance. net.au>Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Synthetic love
We recently had a man and woman representing a couple in a highly
charged
sexual atmosphere - a representative of love was introduced and this
transformed the experience of those representing the couple.
The representatives were experienced with our work, however
because of
the
intensity of the roles I half jokingly said - no intimate contact
for 60
days please!!
After that workshop I recalled the very brief relationship of 2
clients
that
grew out of an earlier workshop, that was particularly painful for
the
woman.
I was relaying this story to a member of Constellation Talk at a
recent
peer
group meeting and he suggest putting a report up on constellation
talk.
Experiences in constellations can be extremely powerful and for
those
who
new to the work, don't understand the dynamics and/or are
vulnerable it
would be easy to misinterpret their experience. The 'synthetic
love' of
a
constellation may not be the ideal ground for a love/sexual
relationship
to
spring from.
Other workshop organisations insist participants don't engage in
'intimate
relationships' with other participants for 6 months after the
completion
of
the workshop.
I feel we have responsibility here, we'll be alerting our clients to
this
phenomena in the future.
David Ward
Fresh Medicine
Healesville
Australia
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Max Dauskardt
max@souldance. <mailto:max% 40souldance. net.au> net.au
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