Dear Elena,
How does one become part of the Russian e conference?
. . In the fullest sense, we are all the Chosen people made in an image, but
the Likeness part is where to quote Elliot"Things fly apart and the center does
not hold". It just might be that we are all wearing our own glasses when we try
to appreciate or depreciate the about to end on this plane phenomenon called
inductors and inductees in the dross of the garden of Eden...AKA .Shaman B H
subset...tide and time....
Enneapsychodramatics
Dr.Joseph M. Pirone 2018033080
On Tuesday, May 20, 2008, at 05:39AM, "Elena" <enikki@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Wilfried
Thank you for your comprehensive letter. If you don't mind I will
translate it for Russian constellation e-conference. We have here a
very hard and difficult discussion on the same subject...
Staying in the field of facts...I have a record of Bert's short
speechs on the Split, he made them in Pichl in April 2008 and now in
Moscow just two days ago. If you are interested in, I can send them
to you in a few days (the records had to be unpacked and converted)
Really, nobody is excluded and Bert does not exclude himself. Nobody
is enemy and nobody has to report to him.
"he was chosen then I have also been chosen and you too" - exactly
this was the idea of his speech :-) "Let's move forward together and
on everybody's own way" - he said
thank you and with best regards
Elena Veselago
Moscow, Russia
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "wilfriednelles"
<nelles@...> wrote:
<theresa.guerra@> wrote:
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "theresa.guerra"
there are
In researching Bert Hellinger on the Internet, I looked to see if
there were any videos about him on YouTube and sure enough,
aredozens. But unfortunately almost all of them are in German. Some
don'tin Spanish and even Italian.
However, I did find two videos that were in English but they
here?show Bert Hellinger as much as his new wife Sophie leading a
constellation seminar or something at the Pichl Camp.
Pichl Camp Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjL1IQCiie0
Pichl Camp Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcVGtSlvzLA
Could someone please comment on what she is doing as facilitator
workingI assume this is the new form of constellation work called
Yeswith the spirit mind. But when she starts making people scream
me.louder and louder --- well, frankly, it's pretty disturbing to
Germany
I'm trying to be non-judgmental here, so could her techniques of
facilitating be due to the differences between the cultures of
scream "yes" could beand America?
Thank you again for your wonderful support.
Theresa
Dear Theresa and all others,
it really hurts me when I read that Sophie's effort to make people
connected with the German culture. Every serious constellator hereis upset with the way
she is acting and how she is dominating Bert and is denouncingother facilitators. If she
would not have become Bert's wife nobody would take notice of her.Apart from this: The
camp in Pichl (Austria) is for an international audience. So farSophie (by the way: She is
not German, but Hungarian-Austrian) used this methods only withthis kind of audience or
in foreign countries like Spain or South / Central America. Idon't think that she would
dare to do this kind of work in Germany with a German audience.so HE is responsible.
But to say this frankly: It is BERT how gives her the power, and
reconciliation work in South
Another thing: I read that you have been told that Bert did
Africa. This is not true. He has not been in South Africa after heleft the country in 1968. I
wonder which fairytales go around about Bert.this forum about Bert and
In general I would like to say something to the discussions in
Sophie:shared here, for example
I really wonder what strange opinions and false informations are
when people are speculising about exclusion of Bert and fatherand sun and so on. It
seems that people cannot resist to spread their opinions allthoughthey don't have any
knowledge about the facts.International Conferences 2005 and
Just a few facts: As one of the two organizers of the
2007 in Cologne I have to say that we did everything that waspossible to avoid a split
between Bert and the constellation scene and it's associations.The fact is, that BERT
WANTED THE SPLIT. Why? Because Sophie wanted it in order to buildup her own field
which is now called Hellinger sciencia. She presents Bert as avictim (and he himself does
this too), but that's rediculous.he excluded himself!
Nobody of the leading German constellators wanted to exclude him,
2007 we made every effort to have him in the same leading positionas ever in the
conference but he didn't want. 2005 I published a book to defendhim against the attacks
from the media and against his critics in psychotherapy, andtogether with Heinrich Breuer
I edited a book that we dedicated to him as a commemorativepublication to his 80's
birthday. But when we stated that there are also developments inconstellation work which
are not initiated by Bert, and that other facilitators toocontributed a lot to the work we
were identified by Sophie as his enemies.believe for people who
This is very, very sad and I can understand that it is hardly to
experience Bert only in his work, but it is the truth, and you whodo not really know what's
going on here should be a little bit more careful with youropinions.
father and son projections.
And, please, don't come with those simple interpretations like
People who were very close to Bert and broke with him are not thatchildish, at least not
all of them! I never took him as my father, but when once Irefused to be treated by him as
his son or as his deciple he turned away from me. Bert himself (orSophie, which means
the same) presents himself as the father or the mother of thework. That's their creation.
That means that all the others are children, and those who regardthemselves as adult
people and don't take that parent-child relation are blamed. SinceSophie has taken the
lead they are on a way to become a sect with one Guru and hismanager and their
followers.facilitators have stolen his
Bert is telling everywhere that many of us who are succsessful
ideas and his work. Until 2005 he never claimed that he is theowner of those ideas, now
suddenly he claims them as his property. Before she knew Bert,Sophie was my group
organizer and student. If I had the same attitude like she andBert I could easily say that
she has stolen my work. Bert had some great insights, but they didnot come from god
(that's what he is saying now, that his ideas came directly fromgod and that he was
choosen and so everything must have his name on it) but from thefield of human
consciousness and knowledge. And if it should be true that he waschosen then I have also
been chosen and you too. I am sorry but I have to say that in thelast 3 years he is simply
telling a lot of rubbish. I guess this is very painful to face foreverybody who loves what
this great man has created. Please believe me that I had to gothrough a very painful
process of disillusion (like many collegues in Germany who werevery close to him) but in
the end I am grateful and free.work, I still give him my
I am still grateful to the immense gifts I received through his
reference in my workshops, trainings, and books, I stillacknowledge his practical work
and deep insights, but I also see his limitations and his faults,and I clearly disagree with
the idea of a "Hellinger Sciencia" (as if there could be a sciencethat is owned by a person)
and - above all - with the politics of Bert and Sophie and the waythey treat people as
"enemies" who just follow their own insights.philosophical implications I would
For those who are interested in the methodological and
like to mention my article "Klassisches Familienstellen -Bewegungen der Seele -
Bewegungen des Geistes" (Classical Family Constellations -Movements of the Soul -
Movements of the Spirit"). It is published in the GermanJournal "Praxis der
Systemaufstellung" and also translated into Spanish. Maybe theiris somebody who could
translate it into English, you can download it from my websitewww.wilfried-nelles.de.
Constellations
Wilfried Nelles, PhD, MA, Germany
Author of 6 books about Constellation Work
Co-Chairman of the 5th and 6th International Congress on Systemic
