There is an organisation in the UK who is called "now-here" and is based on
systemic
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:37 PM, ion bucur <ionbucur2003@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Rosalba,
You asked me to comment more on my sentence:
The more help and will to heal, the more miss-understanding of who we really
are, and the more sufference for
<other>.
Of course is only my experience I can share. I was in an Ayahuasca workshop
under a shamanic ritual with some peruvian and european shamans. In the
beggining of the ritual you have to set an intention like in constellation. I
received the following information from the spirit of Ayahuasca:
Nobody can heal or help us. We cannot help or heal anybody. The real reason
is that we are really one and when somebody suffers in reality everybody
suffer. It is only ignorance that made us arrogant as healers. What we can do
is become aware of our deep pain and heal it in ourselves, and to love
ourselves. Sometimes some of us receive the honour to <see> other s
processes. We have to be worthy to be the witnesses of others and not to
interfere in the processes. All of us are guided by the same divine force.
All of us have some lessons to learn, and the most important, in the end is
to deeply love ourselves, and to deeply love the other, so deep to be able to
let him learn by himself/ herself.
When we are not aware of the unity we consider ourselves superior, and abel
to help or heal.....it is a child position....more close to God, than the
others. The major ignorance is the following: when we try to help other we
avoid to look deep in us. The other will suffer even more because we not
really understand that other is me. This fundamental ignorance is the major
cause of suffering.
That was a little bit from my lesson learned in ayahuasca ceremony. I hope
will be useful for you or somebody.
Ion Bucur
Consultant Signum Artis
Facilitator Constelatii familiale
0722461182
www.constelatiifamiliale.ro
________________________________
From: Hania Gorski <haniagorski@xxxxxxxxx>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Healing and helping,
Thanks Rosalba - for bringing to the topic the simple but profound truth -
that not everything what happens during constellation is "solvable" in our
limited attempts or mind views.
That can't be excuse off course for unskilled actions and ignorance or
arrogance of facilitator.
Let me quote B. Ulsamer from his book "The art and practice of Family
constellations" (page 12 - 14):
*Doing constellations is very personal work, which is influenced by life
experience, personal knowledge and understanding, and therapeutic
background. (...)
*
*There are certain steps which are appropriate to a situation and there are
some that are inappropriate. This is the field the therapist has to work
in, and most of the time - but not always! - the terms "right" and "wrong"
don't apply. It seems more apt to talk about movements being "favourable"
or "unfavourable", because there are seldom final, unmistakable answers.
Rather, the task is to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of various
interventions and procedures.(...)
*
*A therapist's intuition is enriched by an expanded understanding and
knowledge of systems. (...)
*
*When I speak about the "art" and "craft" of the work, I am using these
terms in old sense. To become a painter, you have to master colours,
techniques, perspective, etc. That is the master craft which the art
requires. the more finely trained the craftsmanship, the more masterly will
be the result of a new expression or theme.
*
*Art and depth of expression are not things which can be learned, but
craftsmanship is. In addition to the few artists who truly break new
ground, we have to also recognise the great number of learned practitioners
of the arts.*
In addition to this, regarding facing issues of family system, when some
members of the family are drown to die, we need to recognise our
limitations (which aren't to serve as an excuse in lack of craftsmanship) -
otherwise we impose a power which is not ours.
Family constellations aren't for everybody and aren't a granted solution
source.
I'd like to share also a quote I have in my essentials but I forgot who
said it:
*Facilitator is focused on what gives individual people strength and what
takes strength away - this is a guideline to take an action.
*
*Does the question from facilitator takes something away from the person
who has done family constellation or whether it adds something?..*
(seems to me like Bert Hellinger saying but i'm not sure)
It's never enough of exploring these matters...
Hania Gorski, M.Psych.*, *Melbourne
ph. (+61) 400 225 357
www.constellationseries.wordpress.com
***The world, I’ve come to think, is like the surface of a frozen lake. We
walk along, we slip, we try to keep our balance and not to fall. One day,
there’s a crack, and so we learn that underneath us — is an unimaginable
depth. *James Joyce **
On 19 June 2013 14:11, Rosalba Stocco <rstocco@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
**
Dear Bidzen,
Anni's response reminded me of a constellation at a workshop I organized.
The facilitator was trained, the client was unaware of what was happening.
The constellation troubled the facilitator so much that he could not
facilitate again that weekend. (We had a team of facilitators for the
workshop) And this too raises more questions about how to better prepare
for facilitating, as constellation work is not about fairy tale endings. As
most of us were new to the work, I imagine that few understood what was
unfolding in front of us. The concept is that although we do not
understand, our souls understand.
What was revealed was that two of the client's sons were drawn to leave
this world. I could understand the facilitator's distress. Mother, simply
found the constellation confusing. She and I never discussed the
constellation. It was my hope that the constellation would result in a
shift.
The young man had mental health issues not diagnosed at the time of the
constellation. He was in and out of hospital many times over the next 18
months. Each time he was in hospital, he got a different diagnosis.
At one point, I went with mom to the hospital to share the family's
concern that if released, he would harm himself. His psychiatrist assured
us that his behaviour did not imply tendencies towards suicide. He was
wrong. We lost him within 2 -3 weeks of his release. He was a brilliant
young man. It was his 9th attempt in about 18 months and about 18 months
after the constellation.
Everything we had tried to do to help at many different levels did not
help. Six months after the death of her son she buried her husband who had
been ill for a long time.
As her first constellation happened early in my exposure to Family
Constellations, it made me painfully aware that Family Constellations
allows us to see or not see what is difficult.
About a year after her son's death Mom did another constellation. I wish I
could say I understand what happened in the second constellation. My only
recollection of her second constellation that the family system seemed to
be in a more harmonious place and more together than it had been in life.
Hard to imagine that this could be possible.
Please note, although the constellation implied a more harmonious place,
Mom still has many difficult moments. She is still struggling with the
thought that there was something she should have done. It is very difficult
for her to accept that her son's death was out of her hands. Her other son
seems to be committed to life and her daughter is back in her life. There
are many new positive things happening in her life.
Suicide is a difficult topic and yet this too needs much more
understanding. Thank you for the courage for sharing.
Rosalba
http://podroom.a2zen.fm/podcasts/rosalba-stocco
"Success: To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent
people and the affection of children, to appreciate beauty, to find the
best in others, to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy
child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition, to know even one
life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.
"
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882) American Essayist & Poet
Rosalba Stocco, msw, rsw
34 Neeve Street
Guelph, ON
N1H 4C1
519 827 0528
rstocco@xxxxxx
www.rosalbastocco.com
www.guelphfamilyconstellations.com
www.a2zen.fm
www.rosalbastocco.com
LIVE Wednesdays 78pm ET/7CT/6MT/5PT
On 2013-06-18, at 9:46 PM, "anni" <annimukkala@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Bizden and to all,family in the loss of your brother. Suicide is a difficult thing for us to
Particularly, first I want to say that my heart goes out to you and your
deal with in all ways and it was always in my family a focal point because
my mother's father purportedly committed suicide so I was always very
fearful of it happening again.
bipolar disorder. This is a very unpredictable illness for which I would
I noted a couple of things you said. First was that your brother had
hope he was receiving both medical and psychological attention. Second, the
facilitator was a trainee.
Persons in training. I have an excellent family physician who works closely
I thought for some time about this circumstance. Trainees are just that.
with our university medical college. She always has student doctors and my
consultation with my own physician is often predicated by a consultation
with the trainee doctor. Many months ago I addressed a concern with a
student and we decided on an over the counter medication for some pain I
was experiencing. A few months later my kidney function had decreased both
quickly and severely so that it was even suggested I might soon be on
dialysis. I surmise that my physician was never informed of the medication
and that it was an oversight by the student that it may cause me grave
health difficulties.
stopped the pain medication and a visit to a kidney specialist verified
In my situation, an alert pharmacist suggested a possible cause, I
that the medication was in fact the cause. My kidneys returned to normal
function.
all must take into our awareness. A student of anything has very little
I only give this little anecdote because it reflects something that we
experience yet and in all fields of endeavor, a student is not experienced.
wonder if you have had set up a constellation for your brother? For me, a
Bizden, since you are involved yourself now in constellation work, I
constellation can give us insight and awareness. In such a sad
circumstance, perhaps a constellation would open a place for more healing
in this whole situation.
we were worried. He had health issues that we had thought may be related to
I recall also a memory of a beloved man in our extended family for whom
a heart condition. One morning we called across the globe to New Zealand to
tell his daughter, my friend, that her father may need to seek medical
attention. We had to make another call just a few hours later in the
afternoon to say he had died at his home from a sudden and severe heart
attack. He had been happily fishing that morning himself and came home to
phone most of his relatives. He was on one such phone call when he suddenly
gasped and the person heard his fall.
some kind of order yet they are so out of our control. Why did I phone that
I say this because there are sometimes things that seem connected and in
particular day? Not the day or the week before? Who can know these things?
constellation to find understanding and clarity seems to me a human urge.
Life is not always easily explained or understood. Our intention in a
We yearn to know. We yearn to find the answers to the questions we ask. We
seek a cause, a thing to blame, a reason for something. Our intellect often
gives us an idea of what is connected, but so many times when I set up a
constellation, another connection completely different is revealed.
to all, Anni
In the river of life, we are only small drops of water. Kindest regards
"full day" of Helinger then trainee, later certified, his best friend s
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, bizdentitiz@... wrote:
Ä° lost my 38 year old bipolar brother to suicide the day after a
Family constellation..
training certified psychology master from a private university lady got10 years later this finance background ,1 year Hellinger Turkey
breast cancer a year after she lost her father to cancer and blamed all her
" clients"...
would feel all representatives and her clients were working on her issues
Ä° knew when we joined her constellations - i did twice in 2009-i
but i did not question her supervision then, she had none, never..
re-traumatization"
Starting to read Franz Ruppert's books i became very aware of the "
congress in Munih there was a workshop by Clare that i couldn t attend onPotential of constellations and any psychotherapeutic work.
Ä°n Oct 2013 on the first NMuktigenerational Psychotraumatology (MPT)
fascilitators protecting themselves and seekers..i think this is , if not
more, at least as important as all new theories and approaches we try to
learn in detail ...
observe many experienced people working and they were also emphasising this
Ä°n Conecting Fields Congress in May 2013 i had the opportunity to
point of the importance of personal work and supervision and since i had
selective perception on the issue i could see potential of retraumatization
on presented work esp. Ä°n some "healing sentences" clients are asked to
repeat...in one i was the client...
fascilitators since it is confidential and plan to publish information on
Ä° can not share information on health problems of constelators and
this when diagnosis confrmed data accumulates
şunları yazdı:
Warmest regards
Bizden
18 Haz 2013 tarihinde 15:49 saatinde, Rosalba Stocco <rstocco@...>
sees her clients, sees first her own issues. Her approach is that if a
Thank you Bizden, Ion and Robert,
You raise very important points. I have a colleague who when she
client brings to her the issue of anger, she looks first to see where and
what that issue is for her.
with your comment
Bizden, would you be able to share more thoughts and experiences
we really are, and the more sufference for <other>.
The more help and will to heal, the more miss-understanding of who
peace to stabilize itâ€
Rosalba
“World peace will never be stable until enough of us find inner
can do by <healing>, at least for a while.~ Peace Pilgrim
Rosalba Stocco, msw, rsw
34 Neeve Street
Guelph, ON N1H 4C1
519 827 0528
www.rosalbastocco.com
www.guelphfamilyconstellations.com
On 2013-06-18, at 5:51 AM, ion bucur <ionbucur2003@...> wrote:
Hi Bizden,
Very nice point. I totally agree with you.
Moreover, I think that the best we can do is to stop the harm we
that it is a never ending story, the adventure of human life.It requires so much awareness and vigilance all the time.
What I can see, of course through the eyes of my experience, is
when we consider being able to heal or to help others, withoutLately, I was in an special workshop in which I saw what happens
understanding that <The other> is ultimately <Me>, and so ....we need to
heal ourselves, primarily.
the same time, subtle arrogance and innocence) by showing and teaching howI saw people harming other (of course having good intention but in
to feel and be better. The more help and will to heal, the more
miss-understanding of who we really are, and the more sufference for
<other>.
peace: Each in his corner.As the South African priest said when he got Nobel Prize for
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
That made me humble.
Ion Bucur
Consultant Signum Artis
Facilitator Constelatii familiale
0722461182
www.constelatiifamiliale.ro
Bucharest
________________________________
From: "bizdentitiz@..." <bizdentitiz@...>
To: "ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Cc: "ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <
ourselves.Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:36 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Healing and helping
Having an MD for over 30 years now
Ä° would propose we leave the " illusion" of healing
Or helping others behind
and
realize one can only "heal and help" oneself...
The more we do our " personal work", i believe,
The less is the chance of " re- traumatizing" others and
şunları yazdı:
"First do no harm", i propose, be the way to go...
Neither to oneself or the " issue holder"s that are seeking
Ways to love themsekves better and unconditionally...
More and more i witness experienced "constellators/fascilitators"
Getting cancer and other chrınic diseases
Andi feel deeply for all...
Hugs
Bizden
Ä°sranbul
18 Haz 2013 tarihinde 03:43 saatinde, Robert Grant <erebees@...>
work is a
Dear Rosalba and All,
I guess most of us in this forum would agree that constellation
precisely for itspowerful method with tremendous healing potential. It is
potential.power that we need to be conscious of its traumatising
generallyFacilitators will inevitably dictate the pace in a workshop and
participants,their level of competence will not be questioned by the
seductive and atespecially vulnerable participants. The power to heal is a
wrote:times blinding proposition.
Best wishes,
Robert
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Rosalba Stocco <rstocco@...>
offered at
Dear All,
it is unfortunate, that supposedly "healing" statements are
workshop and ittimes that are not most appropriate.
I just recently heard of a young man who attended a trauma
happy to see youwas only at the end that the counsellor said to him, "I am
can see how weare feeling better, and are in a good place, perhaps now we
this is acan try to understand what happened to your brother, after all
him…hislearned behaviour" (please note that his brother had not hurt
discovering whatbrother had hurt someone else…his trauma was related to
some healingwas happening)
With Somatic Experiencing, one waits until the body has done
a periodbefore proceeding. With Osteopathy, it is the same….there is
practitioner layswhere the body has the opportunity to settle before the
Training…that is to stoptheir hands on the client.
There is a reason why we have Crisis Intervention
helps the patientthe emotional and physical bleeding…later the "hospital"
foundation in thisstabilize and when stable the patient starts physiotherapy...
Although, I want to say that until there is a stronger
Having saidfield with training, education etc. clients will be at risk.
experience and athat, although I and many of my colleagues have years of
SometimesMasters Degree in Social Work….it does not offer guarantees.
better.someone with less degrees and common sense can do more and
talked about a
What comes to mind is a story from Rosabelle Rice….she
how good hisMexican Grandmother who in response to a grandson's musings of
around and askedfamily roots might be….the Grandmother simply turned him
http://a2zen.fm/events/finding-peace-turning-inwards-vs-activism-with-rosabelle-whiteif he saw bad people….and that helped him walk much
taller… (link below for those who are interested)
teach the
However, this still leaves us with the question as to how to
were madeappropriateness of when and where to apply healing statements?
In these recent posts, it has been assumed that the statements
rereading, i think theat inappropriate times and they may have…however in
intelligentquotes were floating in the air and that too creates chaos.
thoughts?
Rosalba
http://podroom.a2zen.fm/podcasts/rosalba-stocco
"Success: To laugh often and much, to win the respect of
find thepeople and the affection of children, to appreciate beauty, to
healthybest in others, to leave the world a bit better, whether by a
even onechild, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition, to know
havelife has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to
succeeded. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882) American Essayist & Poet
Rosalba Stocco, msw, rsw
34 Neeve Street
Guelph, ON
N1H 4C1
519 827 0528
rstocco@...
www.rosalbastocco.com
www.guelphfamilyconstellations.com
www.a2zen.fm
www.rosalbastocco.com
LIVE Wednesdays 78pm ET/7CT/6MT/5PT
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