Dear Group:
In response to what Ed and Max are discussing. I agree with Ed that
transference is always happening and if our view is that Bert is a Shaman
pointing towards the
Stars, that is still transference. To use, Libby¹s word, you can
disassociate from that and try to take a different stance, say a spiritual
one, but to me, it¹s more inclusive to admit rather than exclude the whole
range of phenomena, including transference and the others that Ed mentions.
In particular, I say this as a ³graduate² of more than a decade in a
spiritual community, where the stance was aiming for the spiritual, and
disowning the psychological, and quite frequently one¹s family as well. The
great Buddhist psychologist John Welwood who integrates those two traditions
has named that tendency ³spiritual bypassing.² It¹s kind of like you suck in
your psychic gut and try to rise above and be spiritual hoping that will
solve some painful problems. It¹s important for some of us (who feel so
inclined) to access the spiritual view but a common mistake to use it as an
exemption for earthly problems and tendencies like transference.
Libby, thank you so much for your beautiful words that express what¹s going
on for me too. Thank you for saying what I¹m sure many of us must be feeling
about New Orleans.
In the face of this kind of situation, our moment by moment decision to feel
or to dissociate is a great awareness, a form of spiritual practice.
And a note to Tom, who started this wonderful discussion:
You won¹t find me burning you at the stake, bub. More likely I¹ll be strung
right up there with y¹all.
But I really appreciate your opening so many doorways on your own stuff and
integrating
it with the work and yeah, Bert in a constellation a constellation on the
work. Great idea!
At the same time, as Max points out, Bert is himself, beyond our
transferences and projections, as is every other human being, and one point
of admitting transference into awareness is to own our own, so that we don¹t
project onto others quite so innocently.
Alison
On 9/2/05 8:18 PM, tmasthenes13 at TomBuoyed@xxxxxxx wrote:
Allison writes:
<< But my question is: Phenomenologically, in a methodology that
claims to function apart from transference, what is showing up?
Yes, guys, it¹s transference.
So my second question is: Wouldn¹t it be better to let this excluded
therapeutic forebear into the field and see how it feels?
And would doing that change our way of working? If so, how?
How would owning our own transferential dynamic with Hellinger as
part of our work on self change our relationship to Hellinger and to
the teachings?
How it would it change our relationship to fellow practitioners if we
acknowledged that transferential dynamics occur in this community?>>
___________________________
Thomas writes:
-------------
Right on, Allison! Thank you so much for articulating the issue of
transference. D'oh! Of course! Everybody's transferring on to Bert!
Now in physics, we have Newton's 3rd Law of Motion that states "for
every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
In psychotherapy, isn't the analogue equally true? That "for every
client transference, we have an equal and opposite therapist counter-
transference?"
In fact, isn't it the denial of that omnipresent counter-transference
that has been the reason psychotherapy has not really been able to be
a healing force in our Western culture up to now? Now I really ask
the question: "Quis custodet ipsos custodes?" especially in the
therapist's office!
(I'm reminded of the book from a decade ago by James Hillman &
Michael Ventura called _We've Had a Hundred Years of Psychotherapy
And the World's Getting Worse_
Here's an interesting excerpt & discussion about it
http://www.personal.usyd.edu.au/~apert/hillman.html ;)
So isn't the hidden dynamic here among constellators not ***OUR***
transference dynamics to Bert; but rather ***HIS*** counter-
transference on to all of us?
That's a much more elegant way to express what I was slashing around
for in my previous post. I really don't care about Bert's personal
life, but if his personal life is part and parcel of the very hidden
counter-transference trip he's laying on me, then I have a right to
know about it so that I can become conscious of those hidden dynamics
and become a better facilitator, not to mention a Mensch!
All righty then, has anyone ever dared to put up a constellation with
Bert Hellinger himself represented? Maybe that's how we might
proceed to deal with the transference---counter-transference issue.
Burn me at the stake, Allison! Thank you! Nothing like a juicy taboo
to confront the College of Cardinals with. On with the Inquisition!
And I like my heretics well-done, don't you?
Thomas
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