thank you christine for your story
all compassion to you and your family
as a nurse I know how much people suffer from epilepsy and I
understand very much what you have gone through asII have seen the
effect of that illness on personality
lots of love to you and your family
france van der meerschen
2009/7/20, Christine Wilson <christinewilson3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>:
From Christine Wilson, Hertfordshire, UK
Re: Epilepsy
I am very interested in this discussion because my late husband became
severely epileptic following viral encephalitis which he suffered at the age
of 35. Forgive me if this is quite lengthy but it may be relevant. This is
an account of the progression of the illness - We first thought he had flu,
which improved for a while then he suffered a dreadful rash on his back & it
turned out he had shingles. This would have been enough, but he started
very very suddenly to have temporal lobe seizures beginning early one
morning while he was asleep. He had concurrently managed his Type 1 Insulin
dependent diabetes for many years until this time, which was no problem to
him although the routine of the daily injections was much more complicated
than it is today. When he had the seizure which was over in a comparatively
short while, although it left me very shocked, both the doctor and I assumed
it was something to do with the long-standing diabetes. Unfortunately it
was not. He had not been told not to drive his car, and his second seizure
occured at the wheel of his car on a motorway which did not have a central
safety barrier. It was a shocking accident, since we collided head on with
another car coming towards us and the driver was killed instantly but his
son at the back of the car and his little dog were both unhurt. Our car
bounced into a field and we were dragged along on its side, then stopped
finally. My husband was bleeding from his head, spurting all over the roof
of the car and he was having a second seizure which I still did not
understand. We were all taken to hospital and my husband was kept in for
investigation; my little baby son and I were allowed home, unhurt, except
for my bruising where the seat belt had held me during the accident. My
husband nearly died that night because he went into "status epilepticus" and
I was called into the hospital early next morning because the staff thought
he would die any moment.
It may be relevant to tell you that from the moment I and the baby son sat
next to him (by this time almost unconscious, lying in a "cot" bed with the
sides up so that he could not fall out) he never had another seizure all
that day until the consultant came round, diagnosed "some form of epilepsy"
and he was put onto medication. He was kept in hospital for 3 weeks to
stabilise, and then transported to a neurological hospital for further
diagnosis. He still had the terrible rash on his back, which only then was
diagnosed as shingles which "had probably travelled up his spine and caused
encephalitis" but the lumbar puncture was performed too late by then to make
a positive diagnosis. There was no history of epilepsy in his family or
anything similar.
He was able to go back to work but I was warned that his personality might
change, and he was never free from seizures although he stayed on
medication. The two conditions of Type 1 diabetes and epilepsy were
difficult to manage because once he was on medication the seizures were not
so severe, although not absent, and sometimes it was difficult to tell
whether he was having hypoglycaemia or a seizure. For hypoglycaemia of
course we had to supply sugar or sucrose, but for epilepsy naturally the
worst thing you could do was to try to give anything orally.
He carried on bravely working as an accountant all his life and used to
cycle sometimes up to 22 miles to work and back in all weathers. I have to
say that yes, he was very angry then at the crippling effects on his work
and life generally of having to cope with the seizures; he had always
managed the diabetes well and it never seemed to be a problem. It was a
problem if he mentioned it to employers, and if he tried to hide it the
truth often came out because a lot of job applications ask you if you have a
driving licence. At interviews he was usually asked why he didn't have a
driving licence, so the truth had to come out. At the age of 49, not quite
50, he had 3 quite severe seizures over one weekend but was not kept in
hospital, and the following Tuesday morning he had a haemorrhagic stroke.
He was hospitalised and managed to get over the first 4-5 days, but it was
obvious that over the following 2 weeks he was not going to improve much,
and he eventually went into a coma and died.
The systemic effect was - you might call interesting - but sad. We had a
family of 6 children before my husband ever became ill. The eldest, Andrew,
as a little boy used to watch his Daddy do his injections in the bathroom
each morning, and at the time he automatically drew the conclusion that this
is what men had to do each morning - ie shave and then inject themselves.
When he was about 18 years old he did eventually become insulin-dependent
diabetic although one consultant told me that Type 1 diabetes was not
necessarily inherited. The rest of the family have never had a problem.
The diabetes struck just after his beloved Grandmother died, and Andrew
himself connected it with the shock. He of all the children had been very
close to her. Andrew again managed his diabetes without any fuss at all and
carried on with his life. Then not long before his father died, Andrew
also developed "some form of epilepsy" at the age of 21. It was
investigated very thoroughly but the consultant could find absolutely no
reason at all. In both cases, father and son, it was stated to be not
connected with the diabetes. Andrew was also given medication but never
became very stable at all, and his seizures were always temporal lobe, ie
falling, rigidity, stopping breathing, then violent shaking of arms and
legs, biting his tongue and frothing, often doubly incontinent, finally
coming to rest and being unconscious for a while. It was heartbreaking.
His seizures only appeared to happen as he woke from sleep, whether that be
during early morning or perhaps after an afternoon sleep sometimes. He was
always a poor sleeper and spent a lot of the night awake, falling asleep
nearer dawn. He was very angry and ashamed at how the epilepsy affected
him and he tried very hard always to work, and often volunteered for shift
work in a supermarket. He bitterly regretted that he felt he could never
ask any girl to marry him and have his own family.
When I met constellations workshops I worked through much of my own history
as well as looking at Andrew's illness. The constellation clearly showed
that he was "following his father". Any apparent cause for Andrew's
epilepsy was never discovered. He was dreadfully ashamed of the epilepsy.
Arriving at work after suffering a violent seizure over a weekend, and
sporting a black eye and cuts on his forehead, a work-colleague assumed he
had been in a fight over the weekend. This would have been the last thing
ever to occur to Andrew, however - and this is important - he would rather
people believed he had been in a fight than that he had had a seizure.
I was at a recent workshop in London where Bert Hellinger talked about
"murderous rage" and the epileptic having great power, taking strong control
of the family. In a way, taking control of the family is correct, but I
think not in the way that Bert meant it. The illness does become central
and is impossible to ignore, but in my experience both my son and his father
would have given anything not to have to suffer epilepsy.
Andrew also drank and smoked a bit and on the whole led quite a lonely life
at home, with the rest of the family all getting on with their lives in
various other ways. He always tried to stay in work if he could, but again
the epilepsy was the cause of him sometimes having to take time off, and it
seemed that his diabetes became more unstable, although this seemed to be to
be connected with the change from pork insulin to human insulin, which
apparently could be the case. One way and another it was quite difficult to
stay in work.
His seizures continued to be violent and he would damage the retina of his
eye repeatedly, and end up with cuts and severe bruising. When his eye was
damaged he would have to stay in a darkened room for 3 days while the eye
wept and could not stand light, and he only complained occasionally; he
soldiered on like a Trojan!!
He didn't want to die - although he did become depressed at times, he
enjoyed family life and loved the nephews and nieces as they came along. He
also loved animals and usually had pets to care for. He had a sense of
humour very like his father which was clever and "sparky"!!! He could laugh
at the smallest things that amused him and was a great mimic. He did enjoy
life and had many hobbies and subjects of interest that he studied from
home, the most interesting being rivers, reservoirs, waterfalls, reservoirs
supplying water to each area of the UK, and all kinds of details about the
water. Best of all he loved natural reservoirs, rather than any other kind.
When given the opportunity he would visit a waterfall and practically sit
underneath it, sniffing the pure atmosphere (healing negative ions).
Andrew didn't want to die, but very suddenly when he was not quite 43 he
died alone in his bedroom. He did not live alone but 2 other brothers who
shared the house happened to be out that Friday evening. From the marks
and cut on his face which were going to turn into the characteristic
bruising, he had obviously had a seizure and possibly followed by a heart
attack. He was discovered on the floor by his next older brother.
Fortunately we did not need to have an autopsy because his GP was happy to
sign his death certificate. His funeral was held in the same Church as his
Father's had been, almost 20 years to the date after his father, both
January - 1986 and 2006. Their ashes are together in the same Garden of
Remembrance.
I worked the constellation following his death, which was incredibly helpful
and healing for me. He turned round from me and walked without hesitation
towards the ancestors behind him - a group of people placed behind him to
begin with. One man immediately stepped forward with open arms and the
biggest smile you could ever see - his Father - and Andrew went straight
into his arms. All the other ancestors who had gone before appeared to
rejoice to see him again. I have kept that picture in my heart always. I
have another personal belief, though, about Andrew's illnesses. Not only
was he following his Father - it was as if he was saying to his younger
siblings - five of them - "I will take on the illnesses so that you don't
have to".
Forgive me for the length of the story,
Warm wishes to all
Christine Wilson
Hemel Hempstead, Herts UK
----- Original Message -----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:06 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1408
Constellation Talk
Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)
1a. Re: epilepsy From: Stephen Campbell
1b. Re: epilepsy From: Stephen Campbell
1c. Re: epilepsy From: Gary Stuart
1d. Re: epilepsy From: Stephen Campbell
2a. Re: abortion and Sarah's post From: Kay Needham
View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
1a. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx elcoachuno
Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:34 am (PDT)
Thank you Anngwyn...I will chase down the Ayacucho diagnosis as this
would/could have generalized throughout the region affected by the
internal
war.
Happy travels!!
Stephen
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 19:54, <anngwyn@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings from Ecuador,
>
> In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with
seizures
> providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds epilepsy
and
> migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal seizure
it
> often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed
to
> say," I am so angry I could kill ".
>
> In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after
the
> terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
>
> Warm Regards
> Anngwyn
> www.acst-international.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Messages in this topic (6)
1b. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx elcoachuno
Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:45 am (PDT)
Thank you Gary. I very much appreciate your take on the dis-ease or
condition. From my experience of working with cancer patients once they
were/are able to love their cancer and not fight it they turn the corner
and
begin their path to healing. Even when the condition is advanced and as
pilots say, "past the point of no return" their passing is calmer and
not
fraught with anguish and pain that might be customary in that condition.
And, if the corner is turned in time, their recovery and healing is an
apparent miracle and the resultant re-mission is life changing.
Your observation that as facilitators we must take care to not through
it
ALL into the the same bag ( my words not yours) is so very important as
it
occurs to me that generalizations are most perilous for all
concerned--the
client and the facilitator alike.
Fondly,
Stephen
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 01:42, Gary Stuart <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> A very good thread.....Another angle to think about...Is a "Dis-ease'
like
> epilepsy a Resolution NOT to Kill.... The short circuit in the brain
allows
> the impulse to express itself without a murderous outcome hence the
> perpetrator energy is short circuited into replicating the past
offense
> while honoring the killer and victim within the same body?
>
> Food for Systemic thought....In allot of the recent posts on various
> subjects.. I'd like to interject that the symptom is and can be the
> solution...Our job is to decipher it to either Stop the negative
harmful
> way
> or love it as it is and make some sense of it....
>
> Be very careful of making "RULES of TREATMENT' or "One Size Fits All
> assumptions" as Consciousness knows NO boundaries.... A warm Namaste
to
> All,
> Hugs Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Gary%40Chifield.com> &
> www.chifield.com
>
> From:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of anngwyn@xxxxxxx <anngwyn%40aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:54 PM
> To:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
>
>
> Greetings from Ecuador,
>
> In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with
seizures
> providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds epilepsy
and
> migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal seizure
it
> often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed
to
> say," I am so angry I could kill ".
>
> In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after
the
> terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
>
> Warm Regards
> Anngwyn
> www.acst-international.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Messages in this topic (6)
1c. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Gary Stuart" Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx garystuart
Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:34 am (PDT)
Thanks Stephan, I totally agree...in my training with Bert at Pichl I,II
&
III he was emphatic about NOT fighting death. We are all alive but NOT
bigger than life or death as we are at the affect of each. He has found
this
acceptance and respect for death allow more life and health to flourish
hence remission etc...
Deitrich Klinghart has found as he presented in his lecture at the 1st
American conference in Portland that those who work-out their Parent
issues
around a disease more than likely survive and those who reject and fight
the
"cancer to beat it do no...hence we received life form our parents and
taking it the way it was given provides strength against ALL challenges
but
treating a disease as an enemy weakens us to the point of a sooner
death...much to ponder for us all....
Thanks GARY STUART LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stephen Campbell
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 7:44 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
Thank you Gary. I very much appreciate your take on the dis-ease or
condition. From my experience of working with cancer patients once they
were/are able to love their cancer and not fight it they turn the corner
and
begin their path to healing. Even when the condition is advanced and as
pilots say, "past the point of no return" their passing is calmer and
not
fraught with anguish and pain that might be customary in that condition.
And, if the corner is turned in time, their recovery and healing is an
apparent miracle and the resultant re-mission is life changing.
Your observation that as facilitators we must take care to not through
it
ALL into the the same bag ( my words not yours) is so very important as
it
occurs to me that generalizations are most perilous for all
concerned--the
client and the facilitator alike.
Fondly,
Stephen
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 01:42, Gary Stuart <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:Gary%40chifield.com> > wrote:
>
>
> A very good thread.....Another angle to think about...Is a "Dis-ease'
like
> epilepsy a Resolution NOT to Kill.... The short circuit in the brain
allows
> the impulse to express itself without a murderous outcome hence the
> perpetrator energy is short circuited into replicating the past
offense
> while honoring the killer and victim within the same body?
>
> Food for Systemic thought....In allot of the recent posts on various
> subjects.. I'd like to interject that the symptom is and can be the
> solution...Our job is to decipher it to either Stop the negative
harmful
> way
> or love it as it is and make some sense of it....
>
> Be very careful of making "RULES of TREATMENT' or "One Size Fits All
> assumptions" as Consciousness knows NO boundaries.... A warm Namaste
to
> All,
> Hugs Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Gary%40Chifield.com>
<Gary%40Chifield.com> &
> www.chifield.com
>
> From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of anngwyn@xxxxxxx <mailto:anngwyn%40aol.com>
<anngwyn%40aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
>
>
> Greetings from Ecuador,
>
> In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with
seizures
> providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds epilepsy
and
> migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal seizure
it
> often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed
to
> say," I am so angry I could kill ".
>
> In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after
the
> terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
>
> Warm Regards
> Anngwyn
> www.acst-international.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (6)
1d. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx elcoachuno
Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:25 pm (PDT)
Thanks again Gary. Acceptance, dignity and respect are words that are
many
times bantered about but when truly felt at the core of the being are so
tremendously powerful that I am not surprised and can completely align
with
Bert's comments regarding the acceptance and respect for death and the
consequence thereof.
Echo on Deitrich's wise words as well. At least in my journey for this
experience we call life I have in these more mature stages found that
acceptance of what is liberates me in a way I never thought possible.
The
question I have asked myself many times is how come it takes life's
experiences, the ups, downs and roundabouts to finally arrive at this
understanding. Are there those who learn it early in life? I certainly
have
a desire to share it with my children and grandchildren and anyone else
who
might be interested.
Fondly,
Stephen
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:34, Gary Stuart <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Stephan, I totally agree...in my training with Bert at Pichl
I,II &
> III he was emphatic about NOT fighting death. We are all alive but NOT
> bigger than life or death as we are at the affect of each. He has
found
> this
> acceptance and respect for death allow more life and health to
flourish
> hence remission etc...
>
> Deitrich Klinghart has found as he presented in his lecture at the 1st
> American conference in Portland that those who work-out their Parent
issues
> around a disease more than likely survive and those who reject and
fight
> the
> "cancer to beat it do no...hence we received life form our parents and
> taking it the way it was given provides strength against ALL
challenges but
> treating a disease as an enemy weakens us to the point of a sooner
> death...much to ponder for us all....
>
> Thanks GARY STUART LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Gary%40Chifield.com>
>
> From:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of Stephen Campbell
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 7:44 AM
> To:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
>
>
> Thank you Gary. I very much appreciate your take on the dis-ease or
> condition. From my experience of working with cancer patients once
they
> were/are able to love their cancer and not fight it they turn the
corner
> and
> begin their path to healing. Even when the condition is advanced and
as
> pilots say, "past the point of no return" their passing is calmer and
not
> fraught with anguish and pain that might be customary in that
condition.
> And, if the corner is turned in time, their recovery and healing is an
> apparent miracle and the resultant re-mission is life changing.
> Your observation that as facilitators we must take care to not through
it
> ALL into the the same bag ( my words not yours) is so very important
as it
> occurs to me that generalizations are most perilous for all
concerned--the
> client and the facilitator alike.
>
> Fondly,
>
> Stephen
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 01:42, Gary Stuart
<Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx<Gary%40chifield.com>
> <mailto:Gary%40chifield.com ;<Gary%2540chifield.com>> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A very good thread.....Another angle to think about...Is a
"Dis-ease'
> like
> > epilepsy a Resolution NOT to Kill.... The short circuit in the brain
> allows
> > the impulse to express itself without a murderous outcome hence the
> > perpetrator energy is short circuited into replicating the past
offense
> > while honoring the killer and victim within the same body?
> >
> > Food for Systemic thought....In allot of the recent posts on various
> > subjects.. I'd like to interject that the symptom is and can be the
> > solution...Our job is to decipher it to either Stop the negative
harmful
> > way
> > or love it as it is and make some sense of it....
> >
> > Be very careful of making "RULES of TREATMENT' or "One Size Fits All
> > assumptions" as Consciousness knows NO boundaries.... A warm Namaste
to
> > All,
> > Hugs Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Gary%40Chifield.com>
<mailto:
> Gary%40Chifield.com <Gary%2540Chifield.com>>
> <Gary%40Chifield.com> &
> > www.chifield.com
> >
> > From:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroups.com>
> >
> <ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroups.com>
> >
> <ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > On Behalf Of anngwyn@xxxxxxx <anngwyn%40aol.com> <mailto:
> anngwyn%40aol.com <anngwyn%2540aol.com>>
> <anngwyn%40aol.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:54 PM
> > To:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroups.com>
> >
> <ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
> >
> >
> > Greetings from Ecuador,
> >
> > In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with
seizures
> > providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds
epilepsy
> and
> > migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal
seizure it
> > often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> > Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed
to
> > say," I am so angry I could kill ".
> >
> > In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after
the
> > terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
> >
> > Warm Regards
> > Anngwyn
> > www.acst-international.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (6)
2a. Re: abortion and Sarah's post
Posted by: "Kay Needham" familyconstellationinfo@xxxxxxxxx
familyconstellationinfo
Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:10 pm (PDT)
Hi David,
How refreshing to hear your experiences of these differences. It would
seem that
many differences are rooted in the exclusion of one half of our energys
within;
either the masculine or the feminine. How creative outcomes can be, and
how
quickly solutions revealed when both energies work their magic! Do you
find the East
to have a particlularly feminine flavour (even though it is "sticky" at
the moment)
as well, and the West more masculine?
There has been some talk of a headmistress of a school in Australia
lately who
is tackling school disorder on our TV news. She is laying down clear
consequences
for acts of violence that create disorder. It also was refreshing to
see her success
rates increasing with the introduction of respect to order. It seems
the respect of order
sets the boundary to support, as you say, the internal love flow. I
thought this was
another example of how our collective is beginning to recognise these
things. It soon may
be not so much a case of "turning the other cheek" but "giving a good
whack back!".....a little
less hard....of course!
Kind regards and "cool" wishes for your hot sticky days in Guangzhou.
Luv Sadhana
________________________________
From: "david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: constellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:52:17 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: abortion and Sarah's post
Dear Sarah,
Some thoughts prompted by your post.
I think on Ctalk we often see people ask about a certain situation,
and what are the causes, and then someone comes back and says 'its
caused by this or that, and in fact I have a model for finding the
solution' and there are some famous structures of likely causes, maybe
the most famous being Bert Hellinger saying Autism is about murder.
So I am going to do something similar, as a man.
I think that men or the male energy tends to gives us structure and
form and protection, and women and the feminine energy tends to give
us love and relationship and the weaving of life together. Men tend
to hold the boundary within which women can relate and love.
I find sometimes as a therapist that my female clients find it hard
to think in terms of 'parts' of themselves as this is more structural,
but men find it quite easy usually.
So when we read in Ctalk about the structure and methods, such as the
recent ones by Dan and Fung I think they are just being natural as
men. But that doesn't mean for me they don't have other aspects and
feminine energy as well, as I have.
So, my way of thinking is that the weaving of feminine and masculine
energy is important, and both come together to provide support for
healthy relationships.
My thinking has been shaped by some recent experiences. I was asked to
heal a group of women, who had mostly experienced difficult situations
with men, and had, in a way, taken some refuge together. But over the
years they had lost the ability to relate with each other, to love
each other, they had lost their hearts and they asked a man to help
them. The first thing I did, in my maleness, was to help them restore
a boundary and safety and they started to see each other again, and
some emergedlove. The next bit is a bit harder, to help them find
ways of providing their own safety, maybe the community will end or
their views of men will change, who knows.
The second experience was spending some time in a spiritual community
of healers, where I received male energy and guidance, witnessed by a
woman. At first I struggled to fully understand this, that a woman had
been so figural in this. And then I became more in touch with life and
love coming from the mother, the feminine energy, and honouring this.
This experience led me to remember the women in my life who had loved
me, and how much I had respected that, even though quite often I had
struggled to say to them, 'I love you'.
So, my thinking now makes more sense of the father often standing in
first place in constellations, holding the boundary and protecting the
love in the family.
Twice I have seen this in Constellations, in Germany and Australia,
where a group of women had come together in the centre to heal, and
the men have taken positions on the outside, on the perimeter, maybe
looking out, to protect the healing and the love.
So in Constellations now I am less inclined to have rows of men or
women, as I think this excludes the natural flowing of male and female
energy, apart from actually excluding half the grandparents and more.
Sarah, you said "the trick imo seems to be havve a hypothesis, either
based on your own experience or on what you've learnt from others and
then be prepared to modify or even toss it according to where the
energy and flow of the constellation is going." So I agree with you,
in my words structure can give us the safety to make a start, to set
some boundary to feel safe enough to start, and then as things flow,
as love flows, the container for work can grow and the truth can show
up.
This thinking has also led me to think of Constellations not so much
as the Orders of Love, but of Order and Love.
Thanks again Sarah
David Mathes, from a sticky Guangzhou.
Posted by: "sarahjibhai" drsarahmoore@ gmail.com sarahjibhai
Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:50 pm (PDT)
dear all
thanks for the conversation. although i butt in from time to time
sometimes what people say here does move me to respond. i particularly
find it difficult to bear when people either new or old to
constellation work say ' mr x says that this means this - so that's
the way we have to interpret it'. in the early days, lots of people
used to go on about bert like this. bert would say something, and he
did have a tendency too in his session like ' this happening in this
constellation means y' and then some people would have a tendency to
then take this as gospel as if when it comes up in a constellation
from thenceforth it always means the same thing. any prolonged
experience in the constellating circle would seem to me to indicate to
anyone involved that different meanings attach at different times to
different actions and reactions in the mandala - and it is dangerous
indeed to interpret them as 'this means that' cos the unfolding of the
constellation itself will often prove the hypothesis wrong. the trick
imo seems to be havve a hypothesis, either based on your own
experience or on what you've learnt from others and then be prepared
to modify or even toss it according to where the energy and flow of
the constellation is going. like in life and the universe in general
for every hard and fast rule there is exception and no-one person has
ever pinned down the categorical laws of the universe. the fluidity of
constellation practice should ram home that lesson to us as we go
about it - the constellation space is a particularly good classroom
for demonstrating it again in my opinion..
happy constellating all and thanks for the discussion
best regards love
sarah
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