From Christine Wilson, Hertfordshire, UK
Re: Epilepsy
I am very interested in this discussion because my late husband became severely
epileptic following viral encephalitis which he suffered at the age of 35.
Forgive me if this is quite lengthy but it may be relevant. This is an account
of the progression of the illness - We first thought he had flu, which improved
for a while then he suffered a dreadful rash on his back & it turned out he had
shingles. This would have been enough, but he started very very suddenly to
have temporal lobe seizures beginning early one morning while he was asleep.
He had concurrently managed his Type 1 Insulin dependent diabetes for many
years until this time, which was no problem to him although the routine of the
daily injections was much more complicated than it is today. When he had the
seizure which was over in a comparatively short while, although it left me very
shocked, both the doctor and I assumed it was something to do with the
long-standing diabetes. Unfortunately it was not. He had not been told not
to drive his car, and his second seizure occured at the wheel of his car on a
motorway which did not have a central safety barrier. It was a shocking
accident, since we collided head on with another car coming towards us and the
driver was killed instantly but his son at the back of the car and his little
dog were both unhurt. Our car bounced into a field and we were dragged along
on its side, then stopped finally. My husband was bleeding from his head,
spurting all over the roof of the car and he was having a second seizure which
I still did not understand. We were all taken to hospital and my husband was
kept in for investigation; my little baby son and I were allowed home, unhurt,
except for my bruising where the seat belt had held me during the accident.
My husband nearly died that night because he went into "status epilepticus" and
I was called into the hospital early next morning because the staff thought he
would die any moment.
It may be relevant to tell you that from the moment I and the baby son sat next
to him (by this time almost unconscious, lying in a "cot" bed with the sides up
so that he could not fall out) he never had another seizure all that day until
the consultant came round, diagnosed "some form of epilepsy" and he was put
onto medication. He was kept in hospital for 3 weeks to stabilise, and then
transported to a neurological hospital for further diagnosis. He still had the
terrible rash on his back, which only then was diagnosed as shingles which "had
probably travelled up his spine and caused encephalitis" but the lumbar
puncture was performed too late by then to make a positive diagnosis. There
was no history of epilepsy in his family or anything similar.
He was able to go back to work but I was warned that his personality might
change, and he was never free from seizures although he stayed on medication.
The two conditions of Type 1 diabetes and epilepsy were difficult to manage
because once he was on medication the seizures were not so severe, although not
absent, and sometimes it was difficult to tell whether he was having
hypoglycaemia or a seizure. For hypoglycaemia of course we had to supply
sugar or sucrose, but for epilepsy naturally the worst thing you could do was
to try to give anything orally.
He carried on bravely working as an accountant all his life and used to cycle
sometimes up to 22 miles to work and back in all weathers. I have to say that
yes, he was very angry then at the crippling effects on his work and life
generally of having to cope with the seizures; he had always managed the
diabetes well and it never seemed to be a problem. It was a problem if he
mentioned it to employers, and if he tried to hide it the truth often came out
because a lot of job applications ask you if you have a driving licence. At
interviews he was usually asked why he didn't have a driving licence, so the
truth had to come out. At the age of 49, not quite 50, he had 3 quite severe
seizures over one weekend but was not kept in hospital, and the following
Tuesday morning he had a haemorrhagic stroke. He was hospitalised and managed
to get over the first 4-5 days, but it was obvious that over the following 2
weeks he was not going to improve much, and he eventually went into a coma and
died.
The systemic effect was - you might call interesting - but sad. We had a
family of 6 children before my husband ever became ill. The eldest, Andrew, as
a little boy used to watch his Daddy do his injections in the bathroom each
morning, and at the time he automatically drew the conclusion that this is what
men had to do each morning - ie shave and then inject themselves. When he was
about 18 years old he did eventually become insulin-dependent diabetic although
one consultant told me that Type 1 diabetes was not necessarily inherited.
The rest of the family have never had a problem. The diabetes struck just
after his beloved Grandmother died, and Andrew himself connected it with the
shock. He of all the children had been very close to her. Andrew again
managed his diabetes without any fuss at all and carried on with his life.
Then not long before his father died, Andrew also developed "some form of
epilepsy" at the age of 21. It was investigated very thoroughly but the
consultant could find absolutely no reason at all. In both cases, father and
son, it was stated to be not connected with the diabetes. Andrew was also
given medication but never became very stable at all, and his seizures were
always temporal lobe, ie falling, rigidity, stopping breathing, then violent
shaking of arms and legs, biting his tongue and frothing, often doubly
incontinent, finally coming to rest and being unconscious for a while. It was
heartbreaking. His seizures only appeared to happen as he woke from sleep,
whether that be during early morning or perhaps after an afternoon sleep
sometimes. He was always a poor sleeper and spent a lot of the night awake,
falling asleep nearer dawn. He was very angry and ashamed at how the epilepsy
affected him and he tried very hard always to work, and often volunteered for
shift work in a supermarket. He bitterly regretted that he felt he could
never ask any girl to marry him and have his own family.
When I met constellations workshops I worked through much of my own history as
well as looking at Andrew's illness. The constellation clearly showed that he
was "following his father". Any apparent cause for Andrew's epilepsy was
never discovered. He was dreadfully ashamed of the epilepsy. Arriving at
work after suffering a violent seizure over a weekend, and sporting a black eye
and cuts on his forehead, a work-colleague assumed he had been in a fight over
the weekend. This would have been the last thing ever to occur to Andrew,
however - and this is important - he would rather people believed he had been
in a fight than that he had had a seizure.
I was at a recent workshop in London where Bert Hellinger talked about
"murderous rage" and the epileptic having great power, taking strong control of
the family. In a way, taking control of the family is correct, but I think not
in the way that Bert meant it. The illness does become central and is
impossible to ignore, but in my experience both my son and his father would
have given anything not to have to suffer epilepsy.
Andrew also drank and smoked a bit and on the whole led quite a lonely life at
home, with the rest of the family all getting on with their lives in various
other ways. He always tried to stay in work if he could, but again the
epilepsy was the cause of him sometimes having to take time off, and it seemed
that his diabetes became more unstable, although this seemed to be to be
connected with the change from pork insulin to human insulin, which apparently
could be the case. One way and another it was quite difficult to stay in work.
His seizures continued to be violent and he would damage the retina of his eye
repeatedly, and end up with cuts and severe bruising. When his eye was damaged
he would have to stay in a darkened room for 3 days while the eye wept and
could not stand light, and he only complained occasionally; he soldiered on
like a Trojan!!
He didn't want to die - although he did become depressed at times, he enjoyed
family life and loved the nephews and nieces as they came along. He also loved
animals and usually had pets to care for. He had a sense of humour very like
his father which was clever and "sparky"!!! He could laugh at the smallest
things that amused him and was a great mimic. He did enjoy life and had many
hobbies and subjects of interest that he studied from home, the most
interesting being rivers, reservoirs, waterfalls, reservoirs supplying water to
each area of the UK, and all kinds of details about the water. Best of all he
loved natural reservoirs, rather than any other kind. When given the
opportunity he would visit a waterfall and practically sit underneath it,
sniffing the pure atmosphere (healing negative ions). Andrew didn't want to
die, but very suddenly when he was not quite 43 he died alone in his bedroom.
He did not live alone but 2 other brothers who shared the house happened to be
out that Friday evening. From the marks and cut on his face which were going
to turn into the characteristic bruising, he had obviously had a seizure and
possibly followed by a heart attack. He was discovered on the floor by his
next older brother. Fortunately we did not need to have an autopsy because
his GP was happy to sign his death certificate. His funeral was held in the
same Church as his Father's had been, almost 20 years to the date after his
father, both January - 1986 and 2006. Their ashes are together in the same
Garden of Remembrance.
I worked the constellation following his death, which was incredibly helpful
and healing for me. He turned round from me and walked without hesitation
towards the ancestors behind him - a group of people placed behind him to begin
with. One man immediately stepped forward with open arms and the biggest smile
you could ever see - his Father - and Andrew went straight into his arms. All
the other ancestors who had gone before appeared to rejoice to see him again.
I have kept that picture in my heart always. I have another personal belief,
though, about Andrew's illnesses. Not only was he following his Father - it
was as if he was saying to his younger siblings - five of them - "I will take
on the illnesses so that you don't have to".
Forgive me for the length of the story,
Warm wishes to all
Christine Wilson
Hemel Hempstead, Herts UK
----- Original Message -----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:06 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 1408
Constellation Talk
Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)
1a. Re: epilepsy From: Stephen Campbell
1b. Re: epilepsy From: Stephen Campbell
1c. Re: epilepsy From: Gary Stuart
1d. Re: epilepsy From: Stephen Campbell
2a. Re: abortion and Sarah's post From: Kay Needham
View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
1a. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx elcoachuno
Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:34 am (PDT)
Thank you Anngwyn...I will chase down the Ayacucho diagnosis as this
would/could have generalized throughout the region affected by the internal
war.
Happy travels!!
Stephen
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 19:54, <anngwyn@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings from Ecuador,
>
> In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with seizures
> providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds epilepsy and
> migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal seizure it
> often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed to
> say," I am so angry I could kill ".
>
> In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after the
> terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
>
> Warm Regards
> Anngwyn
> www.acst-international.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Messages in this topic (6)
1b. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx elcoachuno
Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:45 am (PDT)
Thank you Gary. I very much appreciate your take on the dis-ease or
condition. From my experience of working with cancer patients once they
were/are able to love their cancer and not fight it they turn the corner and
begin their path to healing. Even when the condition is advanced and as
pilots say, "past the point of no return" their passing is calmer and not
fraught with anguish and pain that might be customary in that condition.
And, if the corner is turned in time, their recovery and healing is an
apparent miracle and the resultant re-mission is life changing.
Your observation that as facilitators we must take care to not through it
ALL into the the same bag ( my words not yours) is so very important as it
occurs to me that generalizations are most perilous for all concerned--the
client and the facilitator alike.
Fondly,
Stephen
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 01:42, Gary Stuart <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> A very good thread.....Another angle to think about...Is a "Dis-ease' like
> epilepsy a Resolution NOT to Kill.... The short circuit in the brain
allows
> the impulse to express itself without a murderous outcome hence the
> perpetrator energy is short circuited into replicating the past offense
> while honoring the killer and victim within the same body?
>
> Food for Systemic thought....In allot of the recent posts on various
> subjects.. I'd like to interject that the symptom is and can be the
> solution...Our job is to decipher it to either Stop the negative harmful
> way
> or love it as it is and make some sense of it....
>
> Be very careful of making "RULES of TREATMENT' or "One Size Fits All
> assumptions" as Consciousness knows NO boundaries.... A warm Namaste to
> All,
> Hugs Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Gary%40Chifield.com> &
> www.chifield.com
>
> From:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of anngwyn@xxxxxxx <anngwyn%40aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
>
>
> Greetings from Ecuador,
>
> In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with seizures
> providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds epilepsy and
> migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal seizure it
> often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed to
> say," I am so angry I could kill ".
>
> In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after the
> terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
>
> Warm Regards
> Anngwyn
> www.acst-international.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Messages in this topic (6)
1c. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Gary Stuart" Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx garystuart
Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:34 am (PDT)
Thanks Stephan, I totally agree...in my training with Bert at Pichl I,II &
III he was emphatic about NOT fighting death. We are all alive but NOT
bigger than life or death as we are at the affect of each. He has found this
acceptance and respect for death allow more life and health to flourish
hence remission etc...
Deitrich Klinghart has found as he presented in his lecture at the 1st
American conference in Portland that those who work-out their Parent issues
around a disease more than likely survive and those who reject and fight the
"cancer to beat it do no...hence we received life form our parents and
taking it the way it was given provides strength against ALL challenges but
treating a disease as an enemy weakens us to the point of a sooner
death...much to ponder for us all....
Thanks GARY STUART LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stephen Campbell
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 7:44 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
Thank you Gary. I very much appreciate your take on the dis-ease or
condition. From my experience of working with cancer patients once they
were/are able to love their cancer and not fight it they turn the corner and
begin their path to healing. Even when the condition is advanced and as
pilots say, "past the point of no return" their passing is calmer and not
fraught with anguish and pain that might be customary in that condition.
And, if the corner is turned in time, their recovery and healing is an
apparent miracle and the resultant re-mission is life changing.
Your observation that as facilitators we must take care to not through it
ALL into the the same bag ( my words not yours) is so very important as it
occurs to me that generalizations are most perilous for all concerned--the
client and the facilitator alike.
Fondly,
Stephen
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 01:42, Gary Stuart <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:Gary%40chifield.com> > wrote:
>
>
> A very good thread.....Another angle to think about...Is a "Dis-ease' like
> epilepsy a Resolution NOT to Kill.... The short circuit in the brain
allows
> the impulse to express itself without a murderous outcome hence the
> perpetrator energy is short circuited into replicating the past offense
> while honoring the killer and victim within the same body?
>
> Food for Systemic thought....In allot of the recent posts on various
> subjects.. I'd like to interject that the symptom is and can be the
> solution...Our job is to decipher it to either Stop the negative harmful
> way
> or love it as it is and make some sense of it....
>
> Be very careful of making "RULES of TREATMENT' or "One Size Fits All
> assumptions" as Consciousness knows NO boundaries.... A warm Namaste to
> All,
> Hugs Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Gary%40Chifield.com>
<Gary%40Chifield.com> &
> www.chifield.com
>
> From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of anngwyn@xxxxxxx <mailto:anngwyn%40aol.com>
<anngwyn%40aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
>
>
> Greetings from Ecuador,
>
> In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with seizures
> providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds epilepsy and
> migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal seizure it
> often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed to
> say," I am so angry I could kill ".
>
> In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after the
> terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
>
> Warm Regards
> Anngwyn
> www.acst-international.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (6)
1d. Re: epilepsy
Posted by: "Stephen Campbell" coachuno@xxxxxxxxx elcoachuno
Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:25 pm (PDT)
Thanks again Gary. Acceptance, dignity and respect are words that are many
times bantered about but when truly felt at the core of the being are so
tremendously powerful that I am not surprised and can completely align with
Bert's comments regarding the acceptance and respect for death and the
consequence thereof.
Echo on Deitrich's wise words as well. At least in my journey for this
experience we call life I have in these more mature stages found that
acceptance of what is liberates me in a way I never thought possible. The
question I have asked myself many times is how come it takes life's
experiences, the ups, downs and roundabouts to finally arrive at this
understanding. Are there those who learn it early in life? I certainly have
a desire to share it with my children and grandchildren and anyone else who
might be interested.
Fondly,
Stephen
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:34, Gary Stuart <Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Stephan, I totally agree...in my training with Bert at Pichl I,II &
> III he was emphatic about NOT fighting death. We are all alive but NOT
> bigger than life or death as we are at the affect of each. He has found
> this
> acceptance and respect for death allow more life and health to flourish
> hence remission etc...
>
> Deitrich Klinghart has found as he presented in his lecture at the 1st
> American conference in Portland that those who work-out their Parent
issues
> around a disease more than likely survive and those who reject and fight
> the
> "cancer to beat it do no...hence we received life form our parents and
> taking it the way it was given provides strength against ALL challenges
but
> treating a disease as an enemy weakens us to the point of a sooner
> death...much to ponder for us all....
>
> Thanks GARY STUART LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Gary%40Chifield.com>
>
> From:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of Stephen Campbell
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 7:44 AM
> To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
>
>
> Thank you Gary. I very much appreciate your take on the dis-ease or
> condition. From my experience of working with cancer patients once they
> were/are able to love their cancer and not fight it they turn the corner
> and
> begin their path to healing. Even when the condition is advanced and as
> pilots say, "past the point of no return" their passing is calmer and not
> fraught with anguish and pain that might be customary in that condition.
> And, if the corner is turned in time, their recovery and healing is an
> apparent miracle and the resultant re-mission is life changing.
> Your observation that as facilitators we must take care to not through it
> ALL into the the same bag ( my words not yours) is so very important as it
> occurs to me that generalizations are most perilous for all concerned--the
> client and the facilitator alike.
>
> Fondly,
>
> Stephen
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 01:42, Gary Stuart
<Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx<Gary%40chifield.com>
> <mailto:Gary%40chifield.com ;<Gary%2540chifield.com>> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A very good thread.....Another angle to think about...Is a "Dis-ease'
> like
> > epilepsy a Resolution NOT to Kill.... The short circuit in the brain
> allows
> > the impulse to express itself without a murderous outcome hence the
> > perpetrator energy is short circuited into replicating the past offense
> > while honoring the killer and victim within the same body?
> >
> > Food for Systemic thought....In allot of the recent posts on various
> > subjects.. I'd like to interject that the symptom is and can be the
> > solution...Our job is to decipher it to either Stop the negative harmful
> > way
> > or love it as it is and make some sense of it....
> >
> > Be very careful of making "RULES of TREATMENT' or "One Size Fits All
> > assumptions" as Consciousness knows NO boundaries.... A warm Namaste to
> > All,
> > Hugs Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Gary%40Chifield.com> <mailto:
> Gary%40Chifield.com <Gary%2540Chifield.com>>
> <Gary%40Chifield.com> &
> > www.chifield.com
> >
> > From:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroups.com>
> >
> <ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroups.com>
> >
> <ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > On Behalf Of anngwyn@xxxxxxx <anngwyn%40aol.com> <mailto:
> anngwyn%40aol.com <anngwyn%2540aol.com>>
> <anngwyn%40aol.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:54 PM
> > To:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroups.com>
> >
> <ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [ConstellationTalk] epilepsy
> >
> >
> > Greetings from Ecuador,
> >
> > In my experience, epilepsy has to do with murderous rage....with
seizures
> > providing a discharge of this intense energy. One often finds epilepsy
> and
> > migraines in the same family system. In observing a grand mal seizure it
> > often looks like a very intense tantrum.
> > Bert has reportedly suggested that children with epilepsy be allowed to
> > say," I am so angry I could kill ".
> >
> > In Peru I was told that many cases of epilepsy were diagnosed after the
> > terrorist attacks on the city of Ayacuocho.
> >
> > Warm Regards
> > Anngwyn
> > www.acst-international.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Messages in this topic (6)
2a. Re: abortion and Sarah's post
Posted by: "Kay Needham" familyconstellationinfo@xxxxxxxxx
familyconstellationinfo
Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:10 pm (PDT)
Hi David,
How refreshing to hear your experiences of these differences. It would seem
that
many differences are rooted in the exclusion of one half of our energys
within;
either the masculine or the feminine. How creative outcomes can be, and how
quickly solutions revealed when both energies work their magic! Do you find
the East
to have a particlularly feminine flavour (even though it is "sticky" at the
moment)
as well, and the West more masculine?
There has been some talk of a headmistress of a school in Australia lately
who
is tackling school disorder on our TV news. She is laying down clear
consequences
for acts of violence that create disorder. It also was refreshing to see
her success
rates increasing with the introduction of respect to order. It seems the
respect of order
sets the boundary to support, as you say, the internal love flow. I
thought this was
another example of how our collective is beginning to recognise these
things. It soon may
be not so much a case of "turning the other cheek" but "giving a good whack
back!".....a little
less hard....of course!
Kind regards and "cool" wishes for your hot sticky days in Guangzhou.
Luv Sadhana
________________________________
From: "david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: constellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:52:17 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: abortion and Sarah's post
Dear Sarah,
Some thoughts prompted by your post.
I think on Ctalk we often see people ask about a certain situation,
and what are the causes, and then someone comes back and says 'its
caused by this or that, and in fact I have a model for finding the
solution' and there are some famous structures of likely causes, maybe
the most famous being Bert Hellinger saying Autism is about murder.
So I am going to do something similar, as a man.
I think that men or the male energy tends to gives us structure and
form and protection, and women and the feminine energy tends to give
us love and relationship and the weaving of life together. Men tend
to hold the boundary within which women can relate and love.
I find sometimes as a therapist that my female clients find it hard
to think in terms of 'parts' of themselves as this is more structural,
but men find it quite easy usually.
So when we read in Ctalk about the structure and methods, such as the
recent ones by Dan and Fung I think they are just being natural as
men. But that doesn't mean for me they don't have other aspects and
feminine energy as well, as I have.
So, my way of thinking is that the weaving of feminine and masculine
energy is important, and both come together to provide support for
healthy relationships.
My thinking has been shaped by some recent experiences. I was asked to
heal a group of women, who had mostly experienced difficult situations
with men, and had, in a way, taken some refuge together. But over the
years they had lost the ability to relate with each other, to love
each other, they had lost their hearts and they asked a man to help
them. The first thing I did, in my maleness, was to help them restore
a boundary and safety and they started to see each other again, and
some emergedlove. The next bit is a bit harder, to help them find
ways of providing their own safety, maybe the community will end or
their views of men will change, who knows.
The second experience was spending some time in a spiritual community
of healers, where I received male energy and guidance, witnessed by a
woman. At first I struggled to fully understand this, that a woman had
been so figural in this. And then I became more in touch with life and
love coming from the mother, the feminine energy, and honouring this.
This experience led me to remember the women in my life who had loved
me, and how much I had respected that, even though quite often I had
struggled to say to them, 'I love you'.
So, my thinking now makes more sense of the father often standing in
first place in constellations, holding the boundary and protecting the
love in the family.
Twice I have seen this in Constellations, in Germany and Australia,
where a group of women had come together in the centre to heal, and
the men have taken positions on the outside, on the perimeter, maybe
looking out, to protect the healing and the love.
So in Constellations now I am less inclined to have rows of men or
women, as I think this excludes the natural flowing of male and female
energy, apart from actually excluding half the grandparents and more.
Sarah, you said "the trick imo seems to be havve a hypothesis, either
based on your own experience or on what you've learnt from others and
then be prepared to modify or even toss it according to where the
energy and flow of the constellation is going." So I agree with you,
in my words structure can give us the safety to make a start, to set
some boundary to feel safe enough to start, and then as things flow,
as love flows, the container for work can grow and the truth can show
up.
This thinking has also led me to think of Constellations not so much
as the Orders of Love, but of Order and Love.
Thanks again Sarah
David Mathes, from a sticky Guangzhou.
Posted by: "sarahjibhai" drsarahmoore@ gmail.com sarahjibhai
Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:50 pm (PDT)
dear all
thanks for the conversation. although i butt in from time to time
sometimes what people say here does move me to respond. i particularly
find it difficult to bear when people either new or old to
constellation work say ' mr x says that this means this - so that's
the way we have to interpret it'. in the early days, lots of people
used to go on about bert like this. bert would say something, and he
did have a tendency too in his session like ' this happening in this
constellation means y' and then some people would have a tendency to
then take this as gospel as if when it comes up in a constellation
from thenceforth it always means the same thing. any prolonged
experience in the constellating circle would seem to me to indicate to
anyone involved that different meanings attach at different times to
different actions and reactions in the mandala - and it is dangerous
indeed to interpret them as 'this means that' cos the unfolding of the
constellation itself will often prove the hypothesis wrong. the trick
imo seems to be havve a hypothesis, either based on your own
experience or on what you've learnt from others and then be prepared
to modify or even toss it according to where the energy and flow of
the constellation is going. like in life and the universe in general
for every hard and fast rule there is exception and no-one person has
ever pinned down the categorical laws of the universe. the fluidity of
constellation practice should ram home that lesson to us as we go
about it - the constellation space is a particularly good classroom
for demonstrating it again in my opinion..
happy constellating all and thanks for the discussion
best regards love
sarah
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