Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: "new" work

From: Rita Martino <rita.martino@xxxxxxxxx>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 05:30:54 -0700 (PDT)

From Rita in La Crosse, Wisconsin.............................Sheila....thank
you for articulating.

I have learned so much from this forum and have the deepest YES to ALL of IT
and to ALL of YOU.....Thanks to ALL the Pioneers of Constellation....I  honor
Bert as HE IS........Gratefulness in my heart to be able to read the posts and
in reflective/contemplation.....expand within!

I mostly feel quite singular here in La Crosse doing F.C. and yet I trust
Spirit Mind, Knowing Field, God, Holy Spirit, Universal Consciousness, Pure
Awareness......etc etc......to show up if there is indeed an open flow in my
BEING toward relationship with the "OTHER" in a constellation.  We may change
our verbage and label anew, and this can give us a fresh look/see.....yet it
seems it always comes back to what is there that is real and moving from the
depths....?  what phenomena will show itself from out of itself....and what is
my motive in even doing this "work"?

Warm Regards,
Rita Ann Martino
awakeningfamilyconstellations.com

----- Original Message ----
From: sheila saunders <peacefulcentre@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: constellationtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:47:10 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: "new" work

Always an interesting discussion. I just thought I'd add that, from my
perspective, there really is no "new" work per say, as the work called
"Movements of the Spirit-Mind" has been in the repetoire of some facilitators
for a number of years, long before it was named as such. And "new" discoveries
happen all the time in phenomenological work. Part of Bert's unique
contribution is his willingness to share "discoveries" as he recognized them in
his work. Many of these discoveries came to others previous to that in their
own work as well, altho they were not shared in a public forum.

There are many people doing constellation work around the world who are not
linked in to any aspect of the larger constellation community; yet they are
making all sorts of "discoveries" - or it could just be said, "they are doing
phenomenological work also". Hopefully, the founding of ISCA (International
Systemic Constellation Association) will provide a common ground for those
interested in constellation work around the world, and more of what we are all
finding in our work, will come to the attention and discussion of more of us!

All the best in your lives and in your work. sheila (and welcome to those just
joining this forum!!)

Constellation Intensive with Stephan Hausner July 28-Aug. 2 in Farmington,
CTSheila Saunders, RN, LMFT

www.systemicfamilys olutions. com
PO Box 1011 Weaverville, North Carolina  28787

828-273-5015

Letting your life run in the ordinary way is one option.

To: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. comFrom: nelles@wilfried- nelles.deDate:
Fri, 23 May 2008 16:48:30 +0000Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Bert & Sophie
Hellinger

Hi,thanks to all of you who answered to my letter and shared their experiences.
I can see that their is some truth in every statement. I would like to clarify
one thing: I am in a deep congruence with Bert's approach and also with his way
of working in general. There is a difference in stil and language but that's
secondary. I just do not (no more) agree with the INTERPRETATIONS that he gives
since two years. But that doesn't matter at all because I do not have to judge
him as he does not have to judge me. So I did not write my statement because of
this disaggrement. I absolutely respect Bert's freedom to work as he wants and
don't feel that I have to comment that. And I am shure that everybody can still
benefit immensely from his work.The point I make is that now he is declairing
himself as the only one who has developed the work and who can develop it
further, and that he spreads general jugdements about other facilitators and/or
their associations.
They are painting a false picture about other people who are deeply commited
to Bert's work. This I reject. Otherwise I don't care what they do.What Sophie
will dare or not I actually don't know. I just know that up to now she did this
kind of pushing work and the adorement towards Bert only outside Germany.
German people are very sensitive about this (because of our history). What you,
Theresa, write about his reconsiliation work is of course true. It is common
sense among constellators, and I did this kind of work many times. The same is
true about the movements which you, Danuta, mentioned: It is not Hellinger's
unique creation. Sneh Victoria Schnabel developed something similar about two
years ago, and I also facilitate processes like this when I feel that it is
appropriate, and this came out of my own work.Wilfried Nelles--- In
ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com, "theresa.guerra" <theresa.guerra@ ...>
wrote:>> --- In ConstellationTalk@
yahoogroups. com, "wilfriednelles" > <nelles@> wrote:> > > > Dear Theresa and
all others,> > > > it really hurts me when I read that Sophie's effort to make
people> scream "yes" could be > > connected with the German culture. Every
serious constellator here> is upset with the way > > she is acting and how she
is dominating Bert and is denouncing other> facilitators. If she > > would not
have become Bert's wife nobody would take notice of her.> Apart from this: The

camp in Pichl (Austria) is for an international audience. So far> Sophie

(by the way: She is > > not German, but Hungarian-Austrian) used this methods
only with this> kind of audience or > > in foreign countries like Spain or
South / Central America. I don't> think that she would > > dare to do this kind
of work in Germany with a German audience. > > > Dear Wilfried,> > Please
accept my deepest apologies for hurting you with my question> about Sophie's
techniques and German culture. I most
certainly did not> intend that you or anyone should suffer pain at my
question. I> understand that my ignorance is no excuse, but like so many
Americans> of my age group (I am at the beginning of the so-called Generation
X> group), I am pretty ignorant of most cultures around the world,> including
European. > > However, I am genuinely puzzled by your statement above that
Sophie> would not dare use the Pichl techniques in Germany or with a German>
audience. Yet you are also hurt by my question linking Sophie's> technique to
German culture. It's a real contradiction to me.> > I can only assume that the
reason must lie not in German culture> itself but in the lingering shame and
guilt that Germans still feel> about the Nazis and the Jews? Maybe they have
not mourned the dead> enough as Mr. Hellinger says in the book I have.> > I am
still so very moved when I read in the Hidden Symmetry book on> pages 197 to
202 the transcript of Grace's constellation. She
is a> child of Holocaust survivors and she grew up in Germany and Mr.>
Hellinger put up 14 or 15 representatives of her family members> killed in the
Holocaust. At the end he says that the proper way of> remembering is to mourn
with the dead together as was done in this> constellation, to be one with them.
And that this is the only way to> peace and reconciliation for the Germans and
the Jews. > > > So Wilfried, I really don't want to "put words in your mouth,"
nor do> I want to hurt you again with my questions, but I wonder if you could>
explain why Sophie would not dare use these techniques in Germany yet> she
would use them at Camp Pichl and in Central and South America. (I> guess, by
extension, she would use those same techniques if she ever> came to Texas. :)>

------------ > > > But to say this frankly: It is BERT who gives her the

power, and so> HE is responsible. > > > > > > Another thing: I read that you
have been told that Bert did>
reconciliation work in South > > Africa. This is not true. He has not been in
South Africa after he> left the country in 1968. I > > wonder which fairytales
go around about Bert.> ------------ -----> > Thank you so much for clarifying
the true history of Mr. Hellinger in> South Africa. You know, that conversation
was over a year ago, and> it's very possible that I may have misheard the woman
and perhaps even> assumed that the facilitator she spoke about was Mr.
Hellinger when it> was someone else.> > > > > > In general I would like to say
something to the discussions in this> forum about Bert and > > Sophie:> > I
really wonder what strange opinions and false informations are> shared here,
for example > > when people are speculising about exclusion of Bert and father
and> sun and so on. It > > seems that people cannot resist to spread their
opinions allthough> they don't have any > > knowledge about the facts.>
------------ --------- -----> > Wilfried, I
am very grateful to you for bringing out these facts. I> had no idea there was
so much animosity and bitterness around the new> way of doing the spirit mind
constellations. But if we say yes to such> negativities, could they be seen as
maybe the necessary pains of> childbirth for the new Sciencia baby, perhaps? As
well as for what> may be a new baby for your particular work?> > Again, I am
deeply sorry for your pain and I do apologize if I have in> any way hurt you
with my newbie questions.> > Sincerely,> > Theresa Guerra>

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Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: "new" work

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