Dear Heiki
I have been working with this kind of phenomenon for probably over ten years now. In groups, private sessions with mats on the floor and phone sessions using sticky notes or pieces of paper. The medium does not matter.
I can't give you a script of the conversation since it differs every time. The gist is that you have to convince the energy (or soul part) to either leave if they are unwanted or to integrate if they have been lost.
Asking the one to leave can only be done when it is pointed out that their existence in this current body is not a happy one for either party. Also you will have to make a compelling case that their is a better place for them in the next (level of being, heaven, next world - all depending on your own believe and that of the entity). When they agree to give this a try you lead them to an imaginary light that comes from this other place where they will be taken care off. You lead them to a certain point and have them go by themselves for a few more steps (and before the representative disappear into the void you have to have them step out of their role). It will be very compelling for them to keep going. I often also talk about light beings coming from the other side to greet them and guide them on their way. I ask them during the process if they see such beings and they do and then I let them on their way.
I would suggest you do this in your mind over and over until you feel comfortable with this. If you hesitate and are not convinced that this can work, it might not. I have trained many people in this process and it does take practice.
I hope this helps,
Yours,Elmar
| Office | 303 818 5969 |
| HemisphereConsulting.com |
On Apr 16, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Elmar,
from another perspective, some entities are chunks of lost souls attached
to client. That's what I call fragments. Hope this clarifies why I am
'confusing' them.
Now what I am interested in is what tools you use in the dialogue you
mention? I can imagine how to conduct this journeying even though I
haven't. Are you speaking from experience of using representatives for
working with entities?
All the best
Heiki
On Apr 17, 2015 2:58 AM, "Elmar Dornberger elmar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk]" <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Heiki
>
> I am getting very confused when I am reading this thread. Maybe it is
> because I had a long day and I am tired. I still feel like I need to
> respond.
>
> There is loss of soul and there is possession of an entity. They might
> seem similar and they are very different.
> Loss of souls needs to be integrated back into the self and that feels
> better for the client. And before that even happens we need to find out why
> this soul (or part of it depending on your believe) has left in the first
> place. There might need to be some conversation and negotiation for the
> soul to come back and stay. (There are some culture that believe we have 7
> souls with different purposes and jobs) - This concept has made a lot of
> sense to me working with this subject for many years now.
>
> The other part is invasive entities that can attach themselves to humans
> at a time when the person is sick or otherwise weak. They can hang around
> for quite some time sort of in the background, like a leech draining once
> energy. Some of these are lost souls that are actually lost from a sudden
> death and now are looking for a new host. You can have interesting
> conversation with them. Asking them if they know if they are alive or dead
> and the answer is often confusing because they don't know that they are
> actually dead. Then you negotiate if they would be willing to leave to go
> to a better place. If they agree you guide them to the light and release
> them into the light.
>
> I think you get the picture. This is the little abbreviated version.
> Usually if this is what the client experienced they feel relieve either
> immediately or within a couple of days.
>
> All the best,
> Elmar
>
>
>
> Office
> 303 818 5969
> HemisphereConsulting.com <http://www.HemisphereConsulting.com/>
>
> "When you hold on to your history,
> you do it at the expense of your destiny."
> - Bishop T.D. Jakes
>
> On Apr 16, 2015, at 9:33 AM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx
> [ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Reva for the link!
>
> I certainly agree that taking the realms of the living and the dead as a
> part of a single reality, an 'unus mundus', is a helpful frame.
>
> But even in shamanic work -- at least what little I saw and did a bunch of
> years ago -- the living and the dead have their own domains. Some of the
> work was leading the restless dead to the border of the beyond, from where
> on the shaman itself would not journey. But from there, one could see the
> dead person journeying on on its own.
>
> Now this distinction of realms of living and the dead complicates the
> phenomenon of soul loss a bit more. A fragment does not really have anybody
> to go back to, at least not in the realm of the living. It is parasiting on
> the living.
>
> Some of the information on fragments I have was received orally, but it
> was generally similar to what I read in Samuel Sagan's book "Entities:
> Parasites of the Energy Body".
>
> So one consideration on this matter I have come up with is to maybe be not
> strengthen connection to ancestors with difficult destinies so much. From
> another angle it seems to be the same theme as re-traumatization (or not,
> is so, can anybody spell out the distinctions?)
>
> I witnessed one constellation where the client seemed to partly improve
> (due to restoration of systemic order) but at the same time there were
> phenomena that to me indicated the presence of a fragment that perhaps was
> 'stirred', at least something was making the client worse. Will have to see
> what else appears and how this develops.
>
> all the best
> Heiki
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Reva Hamilton 22reva@xxxxxxxxx
> [ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Good morning Heiki
>> I believe being able to understand "fragmentation" allows us to open up
>> to possibilities...Sandra Ingerman explains a Shamanic perspective. In
>> her video( maybe half way ) her clarity resonates with me. Another way I
>> like to visualize this image of fragmentation is to think of a tapestry.
>> imagine the threads Separate yet connected. Some may have come loose, some
>> may have been destroyed. The beauty of constellation work is the invitation
>> to reweave the tapestry. To assist in co-creating a sense of vibrant ,
>> beautiful, cohesive flow of the clients tapestry. increasing their flow of
>> love...for themselves, their family, their community and the multiverse.
>> When asking the clients to say"is it comfortable or possible to say... i
>> invite you..???
>> You ask a great question and I appreciate your insight. Food for
>> thought...THANKS
>> Sincerely
>> Reva Hamilton
>> 22reva@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sandra Ingerman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *View a free video clip from Sandra Ingerman's:*
>> * Listen with Your Heart: Sandra Ingerman on Shamanism, Healing and
>> Nature*
>>
>> *TO VIEW SANDRA'S FREE VIDEO CLICK HERE*
>> <http://www.sandraingerman.com/Untitled-1.html>
>>
>>
>> Sandra Ingerman, MA, is the author of *Soul Retrieval: Mending the
>> Fragmented Self, Welcome Home: Following Your Soul's Journey Home, A Fall
>> to Grace, **Medicine for the Earth: How to Transform Personal and
>> Environmental Toxins, Shamanic Journeying: A Beginner's Guide, *and *How
>> to Heal Toxic Thoughts: Simple Tools for Personal Transformation. * She
>> is the author of "*The Soul Retrieval Journey*" "*The Beginner's Guide
>> to Shamanic Journeying*" and "*Miracles for the Earth*" lecture programs
>> produced by Sounds True. To get more information or to order Sandra
>> Ingerman's books, audios or videos, click on the picture below of the
>> item you are interested in or click here
>> <http://www.sandraingerman.com/booksaudiovideo.html> to go the website
>> page.
>>
>> You are also invited to listen to Sandra'sPodcasts
>> <http://www.sandraingerman.com/interviewspodcasts.html>, and to read her
>> articles onShamanism
>> <http://www.sandraingerman.com/sandrasarticles/abstractonshamanism.html>
>> , Soul Retrieval
>> <http://www.sandraingerman.com/sandrasarticles/soulretrieval.html> and Medicine
>> for the Earth
>> <http://www.sandraingerman.com/sandrasarticles/medicinefortheearth.html>
>> .
>>
>> To read Sandra's monthly column "The Transmutation News", click here
>> <http://www.sandraingerman.com/transmutationnews.html>.
>>
>>
>> Sandra Ingerman teaches workshops internationally on shamanic
>> journeying, healing, and reversing environmental pollution using spiritual
>> methods. She has trained and founded an international alliance of
>> Medicine for the Earth Teachers andshamanic teachers.
>> <http://www.shamanicteachers.com/> Sandra is recognized for bridging
>> ancient cross-cultural healing methods into our modern culture addressing
>> the needs of our times. Sandra is a licensed Marriage and Family therapist
>> and Professional Mental Health Counselor. She is also a board certified
>> expert on traumatic stress as well as certified in acute traumatic stress
>> management.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 3:28 AM, Heiki Eesmaa heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx
>> [ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a question to maybe those who work from a more intuitive or
>>> shamanic perspective.
>>>
>>> How does the phenomenon of fragments of disembodied people ("entities",
>>> "sub-tenants") play together with systemic order? Can we work with
>>> fragments directly in constellation?
>>>
>>> I simply have observed that in the process of including and taking in a
>>> specific person that apparently created fragments, the situation is
>>> worsened. Watching my co-students work, I am particularly struck at how
>>> dangerous sentences like "I give you a good place in my heart" can be in
>>> such a situation.
>>>
>>> From a more psychological perspective it is re-traumatization, I guess :)
>>>
>>> Hope the above makes some sense to somebody.
>>>
>>> all the best
>>> Heiki
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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