Dear Francesca,
Thanks you so much for your wise insight into
birth trauma and the lovely story, with its
reminder that there are empowering ways to handle
difficult experiences - how you regard an
experience plays a large part in how the experience affects you.
Today on BBC Radio 4's programme Woman's Hour,
there was a discussion about puerperal fever, or
child bed fever. This is what I heard: In the
18th and 19th centuries, at least 25% of women
giving birth in hospital died - very painfully -
from this. On some wards as many as 80% died. The
infection was spread mainly by doctors not
washing their hands between patients and women
giving birth at home had a much greater chance of
not getting the infection. These deaths were in
addition to those resulting from haemorrhage and
obstructed births. Early in the 19th century a
British royal princess died in child birth,
causing fear of child birth to escalate.
Although the death rate in childbirth fell after
the discovery of bacteria and the introduction of
antisepsis, pueperal fev er continued to take
women's lives up to the 1930s , when new drugs
were introduced, and today it is rare in the west
as it is treated with antibiotic. This history
touches me personally as my maternal grandmother
lost her first child and nearly died from
pueperal fever and it also makes me think that
this must have resulted in a deep systemic level
of trauma and fear around childbirth in the west.
I have several times heard Bert say that death of
the mother in childbirth is one of the deepest
traumas that can affect a family - if so many
families have been touched in this way over the
past three centuries, may be it is no wonder that
birth in the west is seen as dangerous and the cause of trauma?
Although I contribute rarely, I find so much that
is stimulating, thought provoking and often
deeply moving in the Constellation Talk discussions - thank you all!
Warmest wishes
Jen Altman
The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "francescamasonboring"
<mailto:sboring@xxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3AThe%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>sboring@xxxxxxxx
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/francescamasonboring>francescamasonboring
Wed Jan 9, 2008 11:55 am (PST)
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most natural
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
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2b.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "Margreet Mossel"
<mailto:margreetmossel@xxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>margreetmossel@xxxxxxxx
Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:04 pm (PST)
Dear Francesca
Thank you for this beautiful story. It may be true for many of us, it is a
beautiful image of love, life, death and grace. And I will bring the story
as a gift for my mother, next time I visit her!
Love
Margreet
_____
Van:
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Namens francescamasonboring
Verzonden: woensdag 9 januari 2008 20:55
Aan:
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Onderwerp: [ConstellationTalk] The Story of birth trauma
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most natural
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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2c.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "rita.martino"
<mailto:rita.martino@xxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>rita.martino@xxxxxxxxx
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/rita.martino>rita.martino
Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:48 pm (PST)
--- In
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
"Margreet Mossel"
<margreetmossel@...> wrote:
is a
Dear Francesca
Thank you for this beautiful story. It may be true for many of us, it
beautiful image of love, life, death and grace. And I will bring thestory
as a gift for my mother, next time I visit her!<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Love
Margreet
_____
Van:
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Namens francescamasonboring<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Verzonden: woensdag 9 januari 2008 20:55
Aan:
Onderwerp: [ConstellationTalk] The Story of birth trauma
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most natural
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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2d.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "Deborah Gavrin Frangquist"
<mailto:workpath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>workpath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/careerintegration>careerintegration
Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:16 pm (PST)
Thank you, Francesa, for this beautiful story. Much is incorrect in
western academic terms - and I intend the play on words.
And I am personally grateful for your story now and for your comments
about story and trauma. My mother is dying, and I am finding it helpful
to be very clear about what has been story and what has been truth in
our relationship - and to be reminded that the deepest truth is love.
Constellation work is one of the ways I have learned to discern the
layers in the stories we humans tell - stories about difficulty and
about trauma and about heartbreak - and to pay attention to the deepest
layers, which are always stories about love and about connection.
Deborah Frangquist
francescamasonboring wrote:
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most natural--
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
Yahoo! Groups Links
Deborah Gavrin Frangquist
Careers & Workplaces for Real People
415-346-6121
www.DeborahFrangquist.com
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2e.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "Alison Rose Levy"
<mailto:LevyAR@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>LevyAR@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/aliroselevy>aliroselevy
Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:48 pm (PST)
Dear Francesca, Margreet, Deborah, and all:
Thank you for this beautiful circle of sharings, each shining and beautiful
like carved beads on a necklace, a circle of words
enfolding us in the deepest truth about the essence of birth, life, and
death.
This goes right to the heart of the work. Some women who self-describe as
³victims of abuse² had asked me to lead a workshop, which I titled
³Rediscovering Trust.² I was a bit afraid of the power of victimizing
stories in the upcoming gathering, and doubted my own strength and courage
to hold the field. I¹d therefore half hoped people would not sign up but
they did of course. It was only my own experience of finding the love that
allowed me to proceed with faith and now comes this gift.
Thank you the story will be shared in widening circles from the central
offering, Francesca.
Alison
Alison Rose Levy
On 1/9/08 5:17 PM, Deborah Gavrin Frangquist at
<mailto:workpath%40ix.netcom.com>workpath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
wrote:
Thank you, Francesa, for this beautiful story. Much is incorrect in[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
western academic terms - and I intend the play on words.
And I am personally grateful for your story now and for your comments
about story and trauma. My mother is dying, and I am finding it helpful
to be very clear about what has been story and what has been truth in
our relationship - and to be reminded that the deepest truth is love.
Constellation work is one of the ways I have learned to discern the
layers in the stories we humans tell - stories about difficulty and
about trauma and about heartbreak - and to pay attention to the deepest
layers, which are always stories about love and about connection.
Deborah Frangquist
francescamasonboring wrote:
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most natural
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
Yahoo! Groups Links
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2f.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "mpowers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<mailto:mpowers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>mpowers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:49 pm (PST)
Hello all,
With much interest I've been logging on to
Constellation Talk for the past year. I feel
compelled to jump in on this topic, particularly
in response to Francesca's lovely contribution.
I recently had an experience at a
workshop/training weekend with Fran where my "birth trauma" issue
was laid to rest in an unexpected way. The issue
I presented had to do with fear of intimacy
which has caused me to remain aloof in various
ways most of my life. Fran had me choose
representatives for myself and for sexual,
emotional and conversational intimacy. (I hope you don't
mind my sharing this snapshot of your work,
Fran). The key movement in the constellation
involved the reps for conversational and
emotional intimacy revealing themselves to be
mother and infant child in that order. The rep
for sexual intimacy stood warmly and confidently beside my
rep the whole time, looking onto the "nativity
scene" before them. As Fran encouraged me to
take this in, particularly to hear the soft
cooing sounds emiting from the mother, I knew
that my mother, as ill as she was at my birth,
had provided exactly what this infant needed. In that
moment the story of "what I didn't get" evaporated.
In gratitude,
Marie Powers
francescamasonboring wrote:
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most naturalIf it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
Yahoo! Groups Links
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2g.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "Anutoshf Foo"
<mailto:anutoshf@xxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>anutoshf@xxxxxxxxx
Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:07 pm (PST)
Dear Francesca
I am so touched and thankful for your story.
I nursed my son til he was almost 3 on demand. He is 29 now and is well
adjusted, sensitive and very independant. I was very blessed that i did not
have to work during that time and could enjoy motherhood full time.
Babies have this innate wisdom of getting what they need and going for it
contrary to what is commonly suggested as not to spoil them. They are still
innocent and not coming from the mind.
I only hope that the mother gets lots of support so she can give to the
child fully. It is wonderful that she is receiving cranio sacral care. I
would also like to suggest biodynamic cranio sacral care which works
primarily with the fluids and not so much tissues or bones.
Babies are such treasures and there is so much we can learn from them!
warm regards
Anutosh
On 1/10/08, francescamasonboring
<<mailto:sboring%40plix.com>sboring@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most natural
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
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2h.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "EJ52@xxxxxxx"
<mailto:EJ52@xxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>EJ52@xxxxxxx
Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:52 pm (PST)
My understandiing is that Otto Rank used to tell his analysands that he would
see them in therapy for only 9 months hoping I suppose to parallel some of
the dynamics, especially the 'birth trauma'. It
is a natural flawed animal/human
process between to beings that about which, at best, we can theorize.
Francesca, so soulful. thanks
Ed
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2i.
Re: The Story of birth trauma
Posted by: "Lisa Marie Main"
<mailto:continuumlmm@xxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20The%20Story%20of%20birth%20trauma>continuumlmm@xxxxxxx
Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:12 pm (PST)
I love this story, thanks for sharing it Francesca!
When I ponder birth trauma, I also consider the
mere natural act of the child moving through the
birth canal and how that can be "considered" by
some as traumatic. Then I consider the fact that
babies cry, in what seems like pain and
discomfort as they get their teeth and how
parents want to sooth and eliminate the pain. It
all leaves me pondering how there must be a
reason for such discomfort from the
beginning...perhaps it is nature's way/God's
way/Creation's way of preparing us for the
physical world experience.....Just some random thoughts.
Lisa Marie Main
----- Original Message -----
From: francescamasonboring<mailto:sboring@xxxxxxxx>
To:
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:55 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] The Story of birth trauma
Thank you Cristina, Dan & others for encouraging the most natural
resolution to an infant's cry. I respect the other suggestions as
well & have seen positive effects of both cranial-sacral and Bach
flower remedies with infants.
Encouraged by how supportive the contributors are in this
conversation and how brave people are about sharing what they have
personally seen and experienced or learned it seems a good time to be
open.
The topic of birth trauma, and the re-introduction of breast feeding
into western society has reminded me of a story. First, I will
acknowledge that the perspective I am about to share may be incorrect
in western academic terms. But, it is another way that some people
see the world.
At times I am fortunate to speak with Native Elders and consider them
to be my most available teachers, although I have been fortunate to
learn from many teachers, (no small number involved in this Chat). I
spoke with one Elder regarding birth trauma and she was so intrigued
that she took the discussion to a Native Senior Center. In an
informal discussion they determined that there had never been birth
trauma in Indian country as far as they knew because for Native
people the way that you are born and the way that you die...are
perfect. Both are gifts from the Creator. (She reported her
conclusive findings to me. I have always loved the way that Elders
speak empirically without reference to text. "It is just so.")
Now, I will share a true story: I once heard a little girl
approaching a Native Elder at a gathering about her own "birth
trauma". The Elder was sitting under a tree, as they often do- just
to be available, and I was within ear shot. The Elder told her, "Oh,
yes. I remember when you were born. I knew your Mother since she
was born.
When you were born, Death came. And, Death wanted to take you and
your Mama both. And your Mama argued with Death. And she said to
Death, "You should let us stay here." Your Mom argued and she told
Death, "I don't think you should take my little girl now. My little
girl will do good things in this world, and I will tell people that
it is because you let her stay. And, if you let me stay, I will take
good care of this little girl who will do good things and I will let
people know that you did something for the world when you let us stay
on the Earth."
The Elder told the little girl, "Your Mom argued with Death for a
long time, with all her strength, and she won the argument!" "And
that is why you are here today. And sometime, when you grow up and
have a husband, you will have to be kind, because when you were being
born you heard all of this argument, and you learned how your Mama
won the argument with Death. So, your husband will have a very hard
time winning an argument with you. You might have to be kind and
sometimes let him win."
The little girl left the Elder and went to play with the other
children, (no doubt wanting to share her story) really proud that she
was alive and knowing that there had been an agreement that she would
make something of her life.
I know it terms of Western Psychology this may be wrong at many
levels. But it has had me wonder at times, how much of the trauma is
the story with which we define the trauma- how much is the trauma
sustained by family & cultural propaganda? (i.e.: The Doctor was a
butcher!..."You almost killed your mother!"..."My mother was
completely unprepared for my birth"...."I was not a wished for
child"...) Where is the element of community/destiny in the story?
Thank you for helping me to remember.
All My Relations,
Francesca
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