Re: [ConstellationTalk]Spirit mind

From: larkessler@xxxxxxx
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:30:48 EDT

Dear Anne and Alison,
   You both bring up some interesting and relevant points.
   I've found that for most people new to constellation work, the
spirit-mind way of working drives them crazy. Although I won't argue its
merits,  I do
think we have to take into consideration the conscious minds of new people.  We
may work at a level beyond consciousness, but their minds still need
something on which to hold. Their minds must be appeased in some way--as little
as
that may be--in order for them to feel some satisfaction with the work. If
they don't, they don't come back.
  In the evening format, there are usually too many people and too  little
time to work that way. You may have time for only one such constellation  and
get very few returning. Of course I'm presuming that we want people to come
back.
  In the weekend format, I've found it nice to include at least one
spirit-mind constellation. I usually do this on the second day by which time
all  the
new people have gathered some experience and developed a level of trust in
the field and the way the field works.
  I've also found it beneficial to reserve this type of constellation  for
those who have had several constellations before but still  can't accept one or
both parents. They are usually intellectual, defiant at  what has previously
been shown, and caught in their minds and stories. The  spirit-mind way of
working then allows the mind and stories to be bypassed and  the healing to
take
place without their protestations.
  But even in these cases, I have found that most people still don't  like
them. But framed by other types of constellations--structural  and
nonstructural--over two days, it doesn't irritate them as  much. They return to
future
workshops. Facilitators and those experienced  in constellations, however,
usually
love the spirit-mind way of  working. Personally, I do too.
  I think all of it has a place. There are facilitators who say "let  the
field do the work," and refuse to move people themselves, calling it
manipulation of the field. But moving people manually can have a beneficial
effect and
can quite often be the only piece that is needed to restore  order in a system
and bring peace. In other words, we as facilitators have to be  flexible and
open to whatever is available and whatever works.
  If we work only in service to spirit-mind, then we don't have to  worry
about people returning. But if we also work to help people, then we can't
drive
them away from our groups and have to take their responses into
consideration. I think we can work in service to spirit-mind and still be
mindful of the
needs of those with whom we are working.
   Thanks,
     Larry Kessler


In a message dated 3/19/2009 11:23:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
LevyAR@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Hi Ann and Anni:

This thread touches on something I¹ve contemplated for some time‹ the use

the phrase-- ³spirit-mind.²

First of all, residing in a left-brained city on the East Coast, rather

than

in a more right-brain dominated  location, I want to first disclose that I
practice classical  constellations for three reasons:

1. I like to follow what is  going on
2. I lack sufficient charisma for clients to patiently sit  still for an

hour,

believing that something is happening that they  cannot perceive; and
3. I feel that a key component in constellations  is the effect of
externalizing ones inner family picture out where  others can witness it and
empathize, and that is undermined when the  participants are bored or can¹t
tell what is going on‹ which I¹ve  experienced through other styles of

practice

It¹s great that Hellinger continues coming up with new phrases, and people

who

first  encounter the work through him today and tomorrow will perhaps adopt
them without reflection. Others who lack other spiritual training may  also
elect to use them. And some may simply like the phrase and choose  to use

it.

But for me, having trained with Hellinger in the  past, and having practiced
for a few years, I have to make a conscious  choice about whether a newly
introduced phrase illuminates a  previously dark corner of reality, or

whether

it¹s gratuitous. I must  confess that from the first time I heard the phrase
³spirit-mind,² it  irritated me like the sound of nails on a blackboard and
still has the  same effect.

Why? I ask myself.

As a coiner  of phrases myself (I¹m a professional writer), I know how
auto-intoxicated one can become by one¹s own inventions, but as a
professional, I¹ve had to be rigorous about whether or not my  inventions
serve. Time and again I¹ve thrown out beloved phrases  because they did

not. As

a result, I guess I¹ve developed my own inner  radar for determining that.
Something about the phrase ³spirit-mind²  goes beep-beep-beep on that radar.

Hellinger is undoubtedly a  genius at naming and coining phrases‹
³constellations,  representatives, entanglements, I do it for you, at the

full

price²‹ and the list goes on. Even though they leave us the task of

initiating

new workshop participants into their experience and meaning, think how

many

dynamics are clarified by their use.

Can the  same be said of ³spirit-mind?²

Many ancient paths have useful  phrases that point towards the ineffable:
consciousness, soul, spirit,  divinity, higher power, the way, the Tao, God,
goddess, the I am,  shekhina, shakti... Modern psychology might speak of
intuition,  feeling function, felt sense.

So I ask why does family  constellation work require its own term? Does that
term contribute  something that no one has previously identified? Or is it

³in-phrase,² which through our adoption of it makes us special, different,

self-signifying as belonging to this particular group? Do we want to stand
apart from our clients as having our own spiritual path integral to this

form?

And if so, what path is that?

A key theme in our work is that each one of us has the right parents and

that

we accept life through them. We are very sensitive about not  superceding
anyone¹s parent via interposing between parent and child.  But what about
peoples¹ spiritual or faith paths? Do those working  this form need to

adopt a

constellation specific spiritual path? Or does our work dissolve back into

greater whole?

The Eastern paths which I¹ve studied typically offer some means for work

one¹s ego, one¹s clinging to small self, for developing humility, or

whatever

you want to call it‹ in our work, bowing is a way to connect with humility

and

smallness.

Yet inflation can be one of the occupational risks of facilitating
constellations‹ as some feel Hellinger himself has occasionally

demonstrated.

For me, if constellations are a path to knowing in a spiritual dimension,

that

path is more empowered through not-naming, then through naming.

But perhaps that is just my preference, or my Jewish ancestry seeping in.

It¹s

also that my own spiritual leanings are more  towards the Taoist which gives
the human a place between heaven and  earth. I like that place ‹ I feel I
belong there. For me, the heaven/  etheric accent of ³spirit-mind² does not
sufficiently encompass the  earth, the natural, and the water-y flow that
really resonates for me.  Five element theory teaches that we are made up of
all the elements.  We each can choose our favorites for metaphoric use, to
heal, to  image‹ but I personally reserve the right to do that rather than
having someone else¹s preference put out for general adoption.

One of my first teachers in this work once said that: ³Anyone who

interposes

themselves between you and your direct relationship to the  divine is in the
way.²

A related teaching is: ³If you  meet the Buddha in the road, kill him..²

For me, the knowing  that representatives regularly access is plenty to

digest

and convey to my clients-- without my making myself into a high priestess

spirit-mind.

So‹ spirit-mind- So‹ spirit-mind-

Alison

Dear Dan and all,

I am very interested in the questions raised in this thread. You touched on
some of my reflections after attending the training with Bert Hellinger in
Louisville in November.

I joined Constellation Talk right after that workshop. Having trained in
2006, I am still a relatively new facilitator. I am hungry to understand
more, to learn from others who have been immersed in this work, and so I
have followed all the conversations in Constellation Talk intently. But
I have been quite shy about throwing out my questions, which I fear might

controversial, to a group of strangers. I kept hoping one of the
threads would address them directly, but this has not happened. So I guess

am just going to have to become an active participant in the dialogue!

I did not find Hellinger's new way of working with Spirit-Mind, as

presented

in Louisville, as engaging as the more  structured Constellation work I was
trained in. I am wondering how  many constellators are actually using this
type of work, and how many  are not, and for what reasons. I have not
experienced other  facililators, at the Asheville conference or elsewhere,
moving in this  direction. Yet many seemed to find the Louisville
training quite  powerful. Personally, while over the course of the week I
found his  newer way of working led me into a more grounded, meditative
state, it  also left me quite unsettled on several levels.

I understand  that in this model, where the facililator barely intervenes,
the  movements unfold very slowly. While in Louisville I was willing to
settle into this slower pace, because I am no stranger to "waiting for  the
Spirit", it was not always clear what was unfolding. For instance,  one day
Bert told us, "I am going to do a demonstration. Bert told us, "I am going t
was a demonstration of. I told myself to be patient,  and surely it would
become obvious by the end. When it was over, after  close to two hours, and
I was still confused, I thought, "Well, now he  will explain it," but he did
not. I discussed it with a few other  people, and no one really seemed to
know for sure what it was that had  been demonstrated. This would still have
been okay; the left brain  does not necessarily have to be satisfied, but
even my right brain,  with its great tolerance for ambiguity, found itself
feeling somehow  cheated.

Is it possible that this Spirit-Mind work, with its  lack of a clear intake,
the blindness of the representation, the lack  of sentences, and the very
limited interventions by the facilitator,  is so amorphous as to become
inaccessible except in quite rarified  circles?

The whole question of discernment is so critical in  working with various
spiritual practices. How do we know something is  of the Spirit? The
traditional answer is by its fruits. In  Constellation work, as in prayer,
the fruits are neither obvious nor  necessarily immediate, but in my
experience there is often a sense of  heightened energy, a tangible sense of
awe within the energy field of  the circle. But if the experience of a
movement of the Spirit-Mind is  as subjective and variable as I experienced
often in the Louisville  workshop - some in the circle understanding one
thing, some another,  some extraordinarily moved, others left wondering,
scratching their  heads about what has just transpired, what are the

criteria

for  discernment?

I have trouble imagining using this approach in  my workshops because I am
concerned about its erudite quality (e.g.  only comprehensible to the
initiated). Nor can I use an approach that  does not speak to me personally.
This does not mean that I am not  deeply cognizant of, and empassioned by,
the workings of Spirit-Mind.  But perhaps, as I believe Dan might have been
saying in this last  thread, I recognize that we cannot operate completely

the transcendent sphere without risking losing something of the human, and
human beings need at least some tiny modicum of the concrete, of story, to
create a context for spirtual transformation.

I did find at the workshop a minority of participants who were similarly
troubled by this new approach. It would have been wonderful to have been
able to dialogue, but there was no opportunity. So again, I would like to
know now whether others are using this "new way of working," as Bert
Hellinger calls it, or whether you are still leading more traditional
Constellations, and if so, why. I would love an honest dialogue about this.

Thank you so much.
Anne

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Dan Booth Cohen <_danbcohen@rcn.dan_

(mailto:danbcohen@xxxxxxx)

<mailto:danbcohen%mailto:da> > wrote:

Sadhana -
Here again is the photo taken by my wife:
_http://www.hiddensohttp://www.http://www.hihttp_ ;

(http://www.hiddensolution.com/images/ocean.jpg.)

>

It is me and my younger daughter Rosie dipping our toes in water. The

ocean

is an apt metaphor for the spirit-mind. It is vast and moves of its own
accord, carrying life, creation and destruction with it. The

consciousness

of the  ocean cares nothing for the fate of any particular organism.
Innumerable forms come into birth and disintegrate in death with  each
passing of the Sun. To the ocean, there is no good or  bad, right or

wrong.

It is wonderful to come into contact with the consciousness of the ocean
spirit-mind. Still, to my wife on the beach, my daughter and I being

swept

out to sea is bad and wrong; returning our toes to the sand is good and
right. Holding her hand, I dare not lose myself in the surf. That would

bad. How can I be a husband and father  without good and bad, right and
wrong?

>

Some go deeper. Some stay safer. Stephan Jay Gould  explained that where
scientific knowledge ends, "Each of us  has to have a personal

metaphysics.

There are questions that are formally unanswerable on which nonetheless
every individual must take a position in order to integrate various

pieces

of his life." These are personal, subjective choices.  What is right for
you is right for you.

>

The common thread that unites the members of  ConstelationTalk is we look
from a space of no thought for  what has been separated. Yes, wholeness
happens. Yes, there  is the healing.

Dan

>

-----Original Message-----
From: _ConstellationTalk@ConstellatioCon_

(mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

<mailto:Constellatimailto:Constellamailto:C>
<ConstellationTalk%ConstellationTCon>

[mailto:_ConstellationTalk@ConstellatioCon_ ;

(mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

<mailto:Constellatimailto:Constellamailto:C>
<ConstellationTalk%ConstellationTCon>]

On Behalf Of Kay Needham
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:31 PM
To: _ConstellationTalk@ConstellatioCon_

(mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

<mailto:Constellatimailto:Constellamailto:C>
<ConstellationTalk%ConstellationTCon>

Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] 2 questions about the teachings of
Hellinger

Hi Dan,
Many thanks for your insights. Here are some further thoughts on

healing.

Healing by definition is the process of recovery, repair and

restoration or

"a  return to wholeness."
For me the question is not what is  there to heal? My experience of using
this question -and I  used it for a very long time -is this. When I ask

such

a question I have discovered that it is bound. It is bound to a plan, a
beginning,an end, an aim and a destination which would be according to

me,

my mind. Because this question came first I consequently compare and

assess

everything that question comes into contact with. In this I am too busy

see, hear,  feel, sense etc.

What works for me is  "looking" from a space of no thought, for what has
been  seperated. Embracing that, "wholeness" happens.. There is the

healing.

Unlike you Dan my toe is not enough in this greater spirit-mind

dimension.

I aspire to set up residence not only in doing a constellation but as a

way

of life. The more I dare, the deeper I go. As I learn to trust and feel
safe in these waters, I find myself shouting from the waters edge "come

in the water's fine!"

>

Lots of love to you Dan Sadhana

>

____________ ____ ____
From: Dan Booth Cohen <danbcohen@rcn.

<mailto:danbcohen%mailto:da<danbcdanbcoh>
<mailto:danbcohen%mailto:da> >

com>
To: ConstellationTalk@

<mailto:Constellatimailto:Constellamailto:C<ConstellatiConstellati

.com> <mailto:Constellatimailto:Constellamailto:C>

> >
yahoogroups. ya
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:11:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] 2 questions about the teachings of
Hellinger

Dear Mariann -

>

Welcome to ConstellationTalk! One of the special characteristics of our
virtual community is we encourage and tolerate a great range of

diversity.

Members come from every continent, speak different mother tongues, work

a
variety of professions, have varying degrees of experience  with the
Constellation process, and embrace differing  personal mythologies.

Your question opens a  topic that has been sitting with me for some

time. My

view is that Bert Hellinger's ideas are easily misinterpreted.. Or

perhaps,

they are being correctly interpreted and I  disagree.

He says there is no good and bad,  no right and wrong in the dimension of
the
spirit-mind. This is quite different from saying there is no good and

bad,

no right and wrong. The distinction is that we do not wake-up in the
morning, commute to work, shop for groceries, call our Mums, argue with

our

siblings, become annoyed with our partners, brush our teeth, and get to

bed

in the dimension of the spirit-mind. Except for spiritual masters (and

even

then), we live our days in the ordinary slip-slide of good and bad,

right

and wrong.

> When people come to me asking for a Constellation, my aim is not plant

them

in transcendent harmony with the spirit-mind. If they can catch a

glimpse

of it from the corner of their eye, I have done my job. They bring

concrete

issues and concerns. The Constellation helps them see the possibility

of a

healing movement that can unfold in the ordinary dimension of day-to-day

> life and relationship. Good and bad, right and wrong are abundant in

this

dimension.

What is there to heal? That is always my first question. That is my

focal

> point when the Constellation begins. It is the destination where the

Constellation is aimed. It is how I assess the quality of my

interaction.

If I dare to step into the greater spirit-mind dimension, it is only to

put

my toe in for a few  moments, not to set up residence.

Others  members of ConstellationTalk are on different spiritual paths and

> operate from different personal mythologies. I am only speaking for

myself,

not attempting to cover Bert's words with a blanket.

Good question!

>

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Constellati [mailto:ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:16 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] 2 questions about the teachings of

Hellinger

Hello,

>

I am a new member on this discussion group, and as such, my questions

may

not fit with your topics of discussion. The only way to find out if

that is

the case is by sending you my questions I pondered during the 2008

November

workshop of Bert Hellinger in Kentucky.

Bert opened his workshop by saying that "there is no good and bad, no

right

and wrong" as all events have been thought out by the "intelligent

mover",

the "Spirit-Mind" , and all events serve a larger picture that we cannot
comprehend. If that is the case, if there is no right and wrong, then,

what

is there to heal?

Perhaps Bert answered this question on the last day of the workshop

when he

talked about images, and how images create humans' reality, which are

not

the same "reality" as the spirit-mind dimension. So maybe we need to

heal

> these broken images that make up our reality until we realize that it

is OK

to leave these images behind and we dare to step into the greater
spirit-mind dimension where these hurts are no longer relevant.... What

you think?

> The second question I have is how one should conduct one's life so we

won't

pass on to the next generations our burdens that will entangle those

future

lives? Should this be a goal? Or am I  just trying to influence something
that is beyond my  control?

Please be kind to me if my  questions are not within your topics.

Regards,
Mariann

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Re: [ConstellationTalk]Spirit mind

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