Dear Johannes,
Okay, no more hard questions! I will get the book. I have many more questions
and if your book does not answer them...I will be back!!! Thank you for your
patience and dedication to this work. I suspect I am suffering from a lack of
experience with this work and like an over-eager student, I am asking for
understanding that will have to come with time and exposure. Just one more
question, if you can bear it...Have you experienced Bert's new approach and
does it coincide with what you are experiencing? I am thinking of the powerful
lack of intervention.
I found your and Ursula Franke's approach very similar in the "less is more"
sense. Working with the exquisite, almost molecular movement of trauma. It
was wondrous.
All the very best,
Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: Johannes B. Schmidt
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:49 AM
Subject: [SPAM][ConstellationTalk] Barbara - please easier questions to
answer :)
Dear Barbara,
In order to answer your question we have to talk about the very fundamentals
of human perception, nature of constellations work, field theories,
co-creation of settings, etc. Constellation work from my experience needs a
lot of background. I try again to give few hints and refer you to my book
"Inner Navigation". Sheila still has some copies.
It does not exactly feel good to talk about the constellation from the
workshop with Ed Lynch because I rather want to respect the ensuing process.
It was as it was and I will try to add some general ideas. You can take them
further in your own understanding.
General remarks:
Whenever someone is setting up a constellation s o m e t h I n g is
happening. It is the same when people do "energy work". The fact that you
focus your attention to a particular matter does bring about some kind of
variation. However, I always wonder when I see people (myself included)
facilitate constellations to what extent do we use/utilize the full
potential of the process. Do not get me wrong. This does not necessarily
correspond with big set-ups, big interventions or spectacular outcomes.
Sometimes little interventions have huge impact and big interventions are
just a puff in the air. Again, could we invite the full healing potential of
the constellation and rather the overall process in the room for the client?
You may ask yourself if what you experienced in this particular
constellation was all that could have been available?
In the course of life people undergo changes and are able to work on
different levels. Some people think we should have overcome our family and
parent issues by age 23 ! We need the rest of our life and energy to realize
our calling, vocation, and various potentials in whatever respect. This
brings me to the huge topic of couple relationship which is actually at the
bottom a very spiritual topic as a couple creates - under certain conditions
- a sacred space between them. There are many developmental issues involved
and most couples are very glad to leave their families behind and go for
their own future. Here the orientation of the facilitator is crucial. There
is a common tendency to think that we need to look at our families of
origin. In fact in 95 % of my constellations I do not even ask about any
family member anymore because it will show up anyway if it is relevant and
you will see a shift in the constellation.
I see much "despair" in partners that the other partner does not work on
him-/herself. Often, not always of course, I see that the partner who
"demands" or "asks" for this kind of personal work is rather suffering from
his/her own incapacity to find access/relate in a relevant way to that
aspect of the partner that wants to be redeemed, touched, accessed,
connected, etc. In long-term couple relationships you find many behavioural
routines to keep the partner at a distance, avoid intimacy and contact and
then attribute this to his/her past, family of origin etc. I prefer in
constellation issues not to jump to these ancestral or family of origin
issues so quickly. I rather wish that facilitators get excellent training in
connecting to the reality in the here-and-now, the immediate effects of a
piece of communication and slow down drastically the initial interview as
well as the constellational set-up. In my opinion, pure provocative guess,
in most facilitation process only 10 - 50% of the relational potential of
facilitator-client relationship is used as precious, holistic information
that reveals everything without even mentioning the families. Everything is
there in the room. This is astounding.
Furthermore, I would like facilitators to sensitize themselves to what can
not be put into words. In my experience, the real substantial, early issues
can not be put into words anyway. I have done hundreds of constellations
without any content from the client except asking for consent to "continue".
Therefore, listening for "marked words" is certainly a useful beginnings but
they will never, like the family history reveal the very deep pre-verbal
issues that are so deeply rooted in the soma of our body.
Your question about the constellation:
I do not know where to start, as there would have been many ways of
facilitating that issue. One possibility could have been to set up the woman
alone and check out have the representative senses, then one could have set
up "the issue", not the husband and could have checked what this reveals. I
would have certainly primarily kept it an inner, internal process of the one
partner and only if the compelling "evidence" takes me to the partner I
would have taken that step, fully aware that it tells the inner story of my
client and not of the partner.
It is my experience that when one partner changes internally and works on
him-/herself this immediately brings about change in the other partner and I
have seen miracles happening in that respect that none of the partners would
have expected. We need to access in ourselves what we would like to see in
our partner.
I see in young couples that they go through the motions of a wedding without
ever entering the inner process of getting married. They end up in a happily
arranged, unnourished relationship and get bored soon. Gosh, I could go on
for long but I have other things to do know.
One more thing. Sometimes, the crisis is the healing ! If we undo the crisis
we take away the opportunity for the couple. Interactional patterns between
couples are amazingly stable. Deep, foundational change in couple
relationships requires that the relationship is sometimes endangered and
pushed to its very limits, to the point of seriously considering splitting
up with all consequences. A delicate process !
May be if you read my book, "Inner Navigation - Traumahealing and
constellational process work as navigational tools for the evolution of your
true self" (available through Sheila or my website www.aptitude-academy.com
<http://www.aptitude-academy.com/> ) it becomes clear what I am talking
about. There I describe also constellations with the "sperm, the ovum, and
the spirit to come" and share some experiences about "Initiation
constellations" that happened to happen and where instructive for me to
learn how to empower men and women so that they can be different and equal
in a couple relationship.
Hope this gives you sleepless nights and keeps the process going :-)
Warmly,
Johannes
_____
Von: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Barbara
Eggenberger
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Oktober 2007 02:27
An: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: [SPAM]AW: [SPAM]AW: [ConstellationTalk] Confidentiality!
Dear Johannes,
As the representative for the wife in this constellation, I felt tremendous
relief when my husband's rep. engaged with his father. I felt immediate
release from what felt like a deep entanglement. After that exchange, my
husband's rep. engaged with me more directly and that engagement lead to
both of us meeting each other in a different way. We both gave a little and
came together in an exciting new way. How would you have done it
differently?
It seems to me that one order of this work is that what my ancestors do not
deal with does affect those who come after them. People who marry enter each
other's systems and become entangled or impacted by the energetic blocks in
that system. Love doesn't flow. If one partner refuses to address her system
issues and the other partner is impacted by that blockage, how is it wrong
for the aware partner to bring it up as a problem?
Thanks so much for your engagement,
Barbara
I understand what you mean when you say this focusing on the partner's need
to work on himself is damaging but only if the focus is defensive and a
projection, i.e., a way to avoid one's own issue. When the concern is valid
and sincere, as I experienced it to be in this case, then a lot of good can
come of it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Johannes B. Schmidt
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: [SPAM]AW: [SPAM]AW: [ConstellationTalk] Confidentiality!
Dear Barbara,
In the constellation you mention the issue was pushed away from the client
onto the non-present partner. One could get the impression that one is
looking at the partner's issue whereas we can only work with the issue in
the room, which is a client's presentation.. The issue in the room was the
question of the woman that her partner is resistant to the idea of
self-development. This was this woman's view of the situation, who obviously
had the idea in mind that a partner needs to work on himself. This is a very
common and often damaging question in itself that does more harm to
relationships than any constellation. And this is what one works on. In the
constellation we finally got a little interaction that affected this woman
and thus, kind of, returned the issue back to her inner process luckily
ensued.
I usually take care that participants understand that a constellation
depicts an inner process and that a constellation never shows the totality
of a couple relationship. A constellation shows the currently activated
critical percentage of a burning question in a couple relationship as one of
the partner's is struggling with or as they both cam to picture their issue.
It can not show the totality as it is driven by the instantaneous activated
issue at hand of a client. Whenever I work with a couple I point that out
and they immediately understand. The non-activated, positive aspects do not
appear at that moment as the focus is shifted to this one particular aspect.
And, no matter what is written here, the effectiveness of an intervention
depends on the inner condition of the intervenor. So what you think about
couples will colour the constellational set-up and the processes you get.
Hope this clarifies a little bit.
Best
Johannes
_____
Von: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Barbara
Eggenberger
Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Oktober 2007 00:11
An: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Betreff: Re: [SPAM]AW: [ConstellationTalk] Confidentiality!
Dear Johannes and all,
I find what you say here so enlightened and affirming for how I feel myself,
however, I was under the impression in Ed Lynche's workshop on couples at
the conference that you were upset with him for setting up the husband when
the husband wasn't there and also for the wife divulging personal
information about her husband in his absence.
What's the difference? If it is all about her anyway, what was it you seemed
upset about?
Confused,
Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: Johannes B. Schmidt
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: [SPAM]AW: [ConstellationTalk] More Recording !
Dear David, dear all,
interesting discussion.
I understand e v e r y constellation as the set-up of an inner process of
the client ! This, in fact, means that nothing is ever revealed about your
family. What is presented is what kind of inner image or relationship a
person developed with regard to Her/his family.
A constellation does not reflect the reality of a family. Content is the
most unreliable part of a constellation. A constellation, I am repeating
myself, shows what kind of inner image developed in a client in his personal
history about his family. Reliable are the QUALITIES that show up but not
the actually related story. I can refer countless stories about that. Hope
everybody makes sure that this becomes a common understanding in the
American field.
Sometimes, the inner image does coincide with some seemingly "objective"
aspect of the real life situation. All the better. In my opinion, whatever
is on the tape reflects internal aspects in this specific (videotaping)
situation, with this particular facilitator, with the particular inner state
of the client in mind, with the particular group of people present. This
should be somehow related to the viewer. In Germany exactly this
misunderstand led to devastating press coverage by the press. By the way,
the same holds true for every story, sorry constellation, you may read in
Bert Hellinger's books.
About facilitators: My experience is that we are living in a time where many
conventional boundaries dissolve. We need no professionals who hide behind
their expertise, role, knowledge, papal infallibility or whatever. The more
I show my own vulnerability in constellations seminars, constellation
trainings, or any other "professional" settings the more people can be human
themselves, open up and engage in a profound inner process that they
experience as highly rewarding. Therapists, facilitators, consultants,
priests, social workers, counsellors, etc. need to be within themselves at a
place where they expect their clients to get to. I hope we will get many,
many tapes of American facilitators who display their own vulnerability to
the public and thus help to create a field of honesty, humbleness,
authenticity and existential humanness that becomes contagious within the
whole field and inspires people to trust their hunger for the same kind of
process.
In this sense I hope the American facilitators will be soon ahead of their
European colleagues.
Finally, to quote the (in-)famous Chris Walsh and his Killer-Koala: "Hasta
la Vista"
So long
Johannes B. Schmidt
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von sheila saunders
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Oktober 2007 18:31
An: constellationtalk@ <mailto:constellationtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Betreff: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Recording
David, and other readers,
Thanks so much for continuing this dialogue. I think it is an important one
and I hope that others will weigh in on it. As for the release I sent a copy
of, yes, there is a contradiction, one that is clearly identifed in the
document with the word "notwithstanding", which means "in spite of,
nevertheless, however, although." i.e. both things exist in the presence of
the other.
The tapes of Bert's work dating back to the mid 90's have been an essential
aspect of how I learned the work when I started. There was little writing at
the time and these tapes provided the only opportunity next to workshop
attendance, to learn from the source of Bert's own learning, and from where
he developed his understanding about The Orders of Love. In these tapes, I
have seen the personal pieces of a number of US facilitators, myself
included. If a potential client saw me work and decided I was not the person
they wanted to work with, they have made the best decision for us both. A
client always has the prerogative of working with or not working with me and
lack of confidence based on their interpretation of who I am or who I'm not
after seeing me do some personal work, is as good a reason as any. When my
shame around my own work or issues comes up, I deal with it, realizing it is
about me, not about any other person. Keeping my issues under wraps because
of it only fuels it.
This does not mean that I would work anywhere with anyone under any
circumstances. I make some discrimination about this, and still have been
fortunate to have had many opportunities to work, all in the presence of
peers, colleagues or strangers, some of it taped. In general, though my
issue is highly personal to me, it is rarely personal for anyone else. I
become vulnerable in relation to my response to an issue or when faced with
the opportunity for resolution. All the inter- and intra- psychic dynamics
or historical events so exhaustively explored in conventional therapy, give
more opportunity for the client to wallow around in their own ego -
something I would REALLY not want on tape! (In fact, it is often when
someone is operating out of ego, that their objection to being on tape is
greatest). I have come to realize that it is not in the issue, but rather
in my ability to take steps towards the resolution, that is a greater
measure of my character, and the area which demands the most courage and in
which I reveal my vulnerability. It is also the most important aspect of
developing myself as a guide for others on a similar road.
As for my family, gosh, if I had recordings of all of the kavetching I have
done about each and every member of my family of origin over the years, I
could lay a road to China. I wasn't worried about their confidentiality
then. Slander, pure and simple, all of it. So now, when I am looking in a
serious way, at the outcome of events that my family members/ancestors
experienced and endured, I use my own inner compass to determine whether or
not I have permission to proceed; and if I may proceed, I make every effort
to do so with respect, openness and non-judgment. I am also discriminating
about who I ask to assist me in my process, seeking out those who use a
well-developed maturity and inner compass to guide them as well.
Sorry I wasn't more concise. All the best, sheila
Sheila Saunders, RN, LMFT www.systemicfamilysolutions.com
2007 US Conference on Systemic Constellations www.constellationsusa.com
PO Box 1011 Weaverville, North Carolina 28787
828-273-5015
Be realistic; expect a miracle.
But be patient.
The impossible takes slightly longer than the difficult.
> To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com> From: david@innersuccess.
<mailto:david%40innersuccess.net.au> net.au>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:18:13 +1000> Subject: [ConstellationTalk]
Recording Guidelines> > Thanks Sheila, for posting this document re
recording guidelines. But > I have a dilemma.> > I do have my own issues re
confidentiality, I am very sensitive about > this. So I own up to this! But;
I think there is a conflict in the > document that was posted, and I guess
anything that is used for > educational purposes, it still seems like a
breach of confidentiality > to me.> > Confidentiality is such a big issue.
We can consent to recording > constellations, but I suppose we need to
consent for our family as > well, or maybe get permission from all of them
before hand. Our > families usually figure pretty strongly in our
constellations! > Getting permission from our families seems similar to
getting > permission to doing the constellation in the first place, but the
> permission is for something different.> > I have pasted below the two
paragraphs I feel are in conflict in the > document posted by Sheila.> > *I
understand that confidentiality concerning all attendees and their >
situations as presented in the group is expected and required. I > hereby
agree to refrain from discussing the work outside of the > workshops, except
in such a way that each participant's identity > remains confidential.> >
*Notwithstanding any previous statement, I also consent to the > conference
sessions being audio or video taped, and for the ensuing > copies to be used
for educational purposes, by myself and by others > who purchase such
copies. > > David.> > Melbourne, Australia
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