[ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
- From: Doug Daniels <douglasneal@xxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 19:01:04 -0700
Dave, I have always been a acoustic guitarist, and was glad just to have
monitors, when we finally got them in the early seventies. The loud thing,
has never been interesting to me as I have been an audio producer of
acoustic albums since nineteen seventy. I love the coloring that comes from
non compressed instruments. Of course we can't talk about loud unless we
talk about compression. I believe that compressing an instrument, so you can
turn it up in the mix, hurts our ears even more, because if it were not
compressed the instrument would fade in and out, in a natural way in the
mix, and our ears would get some kind of a rest. I wonder if we will look
back on this time in music history, as the compression age. I also think
that if you compress everything to the max, you don't have to know how to
mix, because the compression levels everything out for you at the top of its
loudest position in the mix. In the old days we had to eq. everything
sometimes very radically, to get it to sparkle in the mix, and if you
listened to that instrument solo, you would not like the sound of it. But in
the mix it sounded prefect. I hope we don't lose that art of mixing, where
you are having to make every decision because of the final mix. I love the
mixing where I have to work a little to get things just right. I wonder how
little compression we can get away with these days. It seems that most
albums, even the acoustic albums, are resting at minus three D. B.
Anyway, I will let you know, I will be producing some acoustic projects
again this year, as I learn SONAR more Thorley. I like to talk about my
mixing experiences. I have about forty years of it. Feel free to ask me any
questions, and let's keep this dialog going, so we can blend the present
with the past, into some kind of a compromise.
Doug.
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Hillebrandt
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:35 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
Hi Doug, , Yes, could sell them for a hearing loss group perhaps. Well,
there is no doubt that loud music is bad for our hearing but it has been
going on long enough that I don't think it could be considered a fad really.
When people go to a concert, quite often they are going for more than just
the music; its the feeling they get with certain music. There are certainly
people who do listen to some dance music loudly to escape, and I guess it
has its place too. As a guitarist, I can tell you that some electric guitar
sounds can't be made unless the amp is a certain volume to create feedback
or a type of sustain and sometimes there is no real getting around it. Some
styles of music are naturally played quieter than others. However, I was
listening to a documentery the other day on some native African music that
is so loud that it is almost deafening when a bunch of people play morimba
style instruments.
You won't have any trouble convincing me to play quietly, but rock music is
meant to be played loud, partly because many forms of it are rebellious and
the volume is all part of the feeling they want to put across. Jazz and
classical, would safely say you won't find it cranked up too loud most of
the time. Have heard some big bands that were pretty darn loud too;
squealing trumpets..... Old Louis could get pretty loud I hear.... No doubt,
too much of any kind of stimulation is not good for us but then that can be
a whole new topic as drinking isn't so great for me but I will enjoy a Crown
and coke on occasion or maybe a pint of a good dark beer..... Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Daniels <mailto:douglasneal@xxxxx>
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 5:10 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
Dave, I am beginning to wonder if the loud music is just a fad, and everyone
wants to escape into the loudness, and they don't care, as long as they get
to escape their feelings, and thoughts. I don't think that there is a
healthy excuse for over stimulating the nervous system. I was a massage
therapist, and saw what over stimulation does for the nerves system, and
makes the body sick. Coca Cola, is not healthy, but we see it everywhere,
let's not just except something because it is becoming the norm. What's
normal, is suspect, because it usually means that no one is thinking about
it anymore. We can say no to loud. Let's make some tea shirts, and sell them
as fund raiser. For something.
That's what I think, after my experience.
Doug Daniels.
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Hillebrandt
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:58 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
I am one of those who would get blown out by drums and have that ringing in
my ears on occasion at end of the night. I have used sonic ear plugs from
time to time and work quite nicely for that. Personally, I don't enjoy
listening to music at super loud volumes but I can tell you for sure that
louder music is much more likely to get people to get up and dance cause
less inhibited. Depending on where you're playing, the bar owners tend to
like that cause more dancing means more drinking etc. Most people who dance
need help finding the beat too so being loud enough is important for that as
well. Obviously there must be a happy middle point, but there is a reason to
have the volume at a high enough level to put the audience in the right
mood. For many years I was in a band who used no real guitar amps or bass
amps on stage and had racks to where we would just plug into the board. The
sound was almost always the same so predictable is good in this case.
Definitely requires some good preamps, but the Mesa Boogie that I used
worked just fine. Only problem is, you just can't get quite the same
feedback from that as you can from a real guitar amp. Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Daniels <mailto:douglasneal@xxxxx>
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:35 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
To all of us, who value our ears. Someone has to say no to loud. There is no
better group to do it, then those of us who rely on our ears for a living.
Not to mention, just getting around in the world.
Loud is not better, it just lets people not have to listen, then they don't
notice they can't hear anymore.
Let us say no to loud.
Doug Daniels.
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Darren
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:18 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
I'm not sure what it is, but why can't some of these people realise that
stage monitors are just that, to monitor, not to blast the wax from your
ears.
Cheers
Darren
_____
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Steve Wicketts
Sent: 02 May 2011 11:12
To: ddtots
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
Thanks so much Bill, Chris, Gordon, Dug Denis and Mike.
You're all so right, our Ears are precious. I stupidly have been allowing
myself to be caught up in the moment, saying yes to everything so not to
appear to come across like a prima donna.
I'm going to buy some of those music ear plugs. I hated being on stage not
hearing music just a wall of noise.
There is a funny little moment that happened. These guys are very serious
about there music and yet I'm just up there wishing I'd said no to joining
them as I can't hear my piano. there was one particular four bars where I
decided to play the theme music to an English sitcom called Steptoe and Son
as I knew it would fit nicely with the chord progression and who was going
to hear it anyway?
Well the crowd heard it as I forgot that the house mix was perfect lol.
It's not quite throwing the TV out of the Window but it was my rebellious
streak for that night.
Steve W
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael C <mailto:m_dsmusic@xxxxxxxx>
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Loud Stage
Hey Steave, that type of mixing hasn't been done in years.
Part of beeing in a band is to work together and that means beeing able to
hear one another.
If the sound is too loud, How can they even understand what there doing, let
alone what there playing.
I've been playing in heavy metal bands, and all the engineers I spoke to or
even work with always make sure the sound is blended in the house system,
and the guys I've worked have even told band members to turn down their
volumes, as to properly control the mix.
There is of course a certain sound an amp generates to acheeve a distorted
effect, but not to the point where you can't hear your self.
When it comes to sounds in clubs the engenieer is always the one who
controls the over all blending of the sound.
You might want to get yourself a pair of music ear plugs, which will allow
you to hear certain sounds better.
From: Steve Wicketts <mailto:steve.wicketts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 9:15 AM
To: ddtots <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ddots-l] Loud Stage
Hi all,
At the end of last night Show, I was asked to join the band (who was topping
the bill) The house mix was controlled by a sound engineer, however, the
Band's stage mix was simply their independent Guitar and bass amp levels.
My two questions are,
1: has anyone else been on a loud stage environment where it sounds like the
keyboard is in a different key to the other instruments until the levels
drop during the music, at that point you then hear the key for what it is?
2: When the stage level is so loud you can't hear the keyboards, is there
any technique that totally visually impaired musicians use to A: know your
hitting the right notes and B: keep metronomic?
I struggled last night with these particular issues, I always have a slight
Doppler effect when music is loud, I especially don't always hear the bass
notes as clear defined pitcht notes.
Steve W
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