[ddots-l] Re: revised list of sonar things to fix
- From: "Phil Muir" <ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 10:11:15 +0100
D! J! X! wrote: Yea I understand that, I'm just reffereing to the refferences
that the list
makes to this works with jaws but not with windows eyes etc etc, wouldn't
suggesting keyboard alternative for those things be enough, as it would then
not matter what screen reader you were using?
Phil replied: no, because supplying keyboard support isn't the full answer.
Window Eyes can see the
CWACCESS Window which, is what 12 Tone recommend for screen reader access to
Sonar. Meaning that ,
12 tone actually write information to the CWACCESS Window that screen readers
pick up. As stated,
supplying keyboard support is only part of the answer. We also need button
ID's for individual
buttons and if possible, standard MSAA implimentation. A good example of a
plug-in that has
excellent keyboard support but no ID's for the buttons is the Lexicon Panthien
Reverb. Sure, we can
get it speaking but, that's down to HSC support and in the case of CT, Jaws
scripting.
Regards, Phil Muir
P J Muir Productions
Music And Audio Production
URL:
www.philmuir.com/
Band website:
www.steelstringmusic.co.uk/
Band my Space Site:
www.myspace.com/steelstringmusic
----- Original Message -----
From: "D!J!X!" <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:22 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: revised list of sonar things to fix
> Yea I understand that, I'm just reffereing to the refferences that the list
> makes to this works with jaws but not with windows eyes etc etc, wouldn't
> suggesting keyboard alternative for those things be enough, as it would then
> not matter what screen reader you were using?
>
> HTH, D!J!X!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Phil Muir
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 2:19 PM
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: revised list of sonar things to fix
>
> No they wouldn't. Remember that if we are having to use screen reader mouse
> clicks to click on something then, that's an accessibility issue. Also,
> sometimes information is being sent to a control surface which both CT and
> JSonar utilise. However, what if your not using Jaws or, a screen reader
> such as Window Eyes that doesn't support scripting like Jaws does? You are
> then in the position of not being able to utilise control surface support.
> Remember, we are looking at accessibility for all screen reader users, not
> just JFW ones.
>
> Finally remember that when you pres the tab key in Sonar in order to access
> the track inspector, jaws as actually clicking on the screen with the mouse
> to do this. If Sonar had full functionality with keystrokes then, we
> wouldn't need to script as much as we do and ultimately, this would make
> using Sonar with Jaws or whatever screen reader, a much snappier experience.
>
> Regards, Phil Muir
> P J Muir Productions
> Music And Audio Production
> URL:
> www.philmuir.com/
> Band website:
> www.steelstringmusic.co.uk/
> Band my Space Site:
> www.myspace.com/steelstringmusic
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D!J!X!" <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:17 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: revised list of sonar things to fix
>
>
>> Wouldn't those last few suggestions which involve screen reader specifics
> be
>> a little too much? I mean they are willing to work with the accessibility
>> part of the program but when it comes to them knowing or having to know
> how
>> each product of accessibility works, it could become too much... But
> maybe
>> it isn't, I'm just saying.. :)
>>
>> D!J!X!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
>> Behalf Of HF
>> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 10:47 AM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] revised list of sonar things to fix
>>
>> Peruse this list and tell me if there are any errors. I'm going to submit
>> them today to Brandon.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> 1. Keyboard support for some of the newer plug-ins The new linear plug-ins
>> are a bit of a nightmare for screen reader users. For example, in the
>> Linear EQ, there is a graph which you need to click on in order to add a
>> label for a given frequency band. As usual, there isn't a tab order to
>> speak of in that plug-in. Perhaps a group of radio buttons would be
> better
>> meaning that, you could have 20 radio buttons for band selection in the
>> plug-in. You would choose which radio button you wanted to access for a
>> particular band then, tab over to the gain, frequency q etc.for the band
>> that has focus. When a particular radio button is selected, only the data
>> for that band would be displayed on screen. Sighted people would probably
>> like this feature too as currently, when you add labels for each band in
>> order to work on a given part of the frequency spectrum the screen can
>> become quite busy. A great new feature that Sonar is touting is the
> ability
>> to solo each individual band. Cannot do that from the keyboard.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. Audio Scrubbing is not usable with a control surface, as the scrub
> cursor
>>
>> doesn't track properly in Sonar. Kind of usable with the mouse although,
>> still not great. What's the point in purchasing an FW1884 if I can't use
> one
>>
>> of the main features of it in Sonar, namely, scrubbing. Also, no keyboard
>> support for it yet. At least let me assign
>>
>> it to either the mouse wheel or a mod wheel on a control surface. There
> are
>> no keybindings for it.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. No Accessibility In The Clips Pane.
>>
>> Currently a user has to drag various panes apart in order to access the
>> clips pane. Perhaps a clip view, similar in functionality to the event
> view
>>
>> would be great. Or at least a keystroke to find the nearest zero crossing
>> dependent upon the selection that I made with the from and through time
> with
>>
>> the f9 and f10 keys.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4. Automations shapes in the bus view
>> Shapes that are recorded in the buss view, aren't accessible for us at
> all.
>> They do not appear anywhere that we can get to.
>> It would be great if shapes that are recorded in the buss view were also
>> accessible in the event view. At least that way, we could then go into
> the
>> event view and delete them. Here is the nightmare scenario, you just did a
>> killer fade out on the master bus so you saved it. You listen back a
> couple
>> days later and it just wasn't right. Now what, you can't delete that
>> automation.
>>
>>
>>
>> 5. Real world values in the inspector directly from the plug in. The only
>> one that does this successfully is the sonitus EQ. Otherwise, all we get
> are
>> percentage values. When using a compressor, what ratio does 43 percent
>> equate to exactly. Hard to tell.
>>
>>
>>
>> 6. Editing envelopes as Midi values
>> This was implemented in Cakewalk 9.03 but this feature is no longer
>> available. If the
>> envelope is being described by a series of MIDI controller values (which
> is
>> what is really happening anyway if you use a control surface to do your
>> automation), you'll be able to modify the individual events within the
> Event
>> View. Alternatively, it would be nice to set nodes using a surface that
>> describe minima and maxima then get Sonar to join them up using
>> user-selectable lines/curves - adjusting the starting or ending node would
>> then cause the line/curve to be redrawn.
>>
>>
>>
>> 7. Need to be able to see and edit MIDI note off messages in the Event
> View.
>>
>>
>>
>> 8. Unable to re-order tracks using keystrokes.
>>
>>
>>
>> 9. Unable to change ordering of plug-ins within a strip's FX Bin using
> the
>> keyboard
>>
>>
>>
>> 10 No Keyboard Support For Soloing Busses.
>>
>>
>>
>> 11. No keyboard keystroke to bring up the context menu that allows the
>> insertion of new sends, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> 12. Have to use a mouse to gain focus in the Console View.
>>
>>
>>
>> 13. Unable to read effects names from the FX Bin if using Window Eyes -
>> works with Jaws.
>>
>>
>>
>> 14. Have to use a mouse to move to the Track Inspector when using Window
>> Eyes -OK with Jaws.
>>
>>
>>
>> 15. Unable to determine which track/bus I'm on when using Window Eyes and
>> keyboard commands. This works better in Jaws, but is not 100% reliable.
>>
>>
>>
>> 16. Can't navigate the Event View using Window Eyes.
>>
>>
>>
>> 17. Have to use a mouse to get into the Plug In Manager.
>>
>>
>>
>> 18. Can't access the Piano Roll View.
>>
>>
>>
>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>> ** unsubscribe
>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> ** immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> ** or send a message, to
>> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>> ** unsubscribe
>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> ** immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> ** or send a message, to
>> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>>
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
>
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
Other related posts:
