Arpad, Ken, This is making a mountain out of a molehill. If one writes the parser to ignore Format, which in fact the parser does today with just one exception, then all one has to do is simply filter out the token format when processing ami files. Thus old and new AMI files will work just fine. This is trivial coding, and it will clean up the language definition, and the differences between the parameter string passed to the DLL and the parameter string in the .ami file. Walter Walter Katz 303.449-2308 Mobile 303.883-2120 wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx www.sisoft.com -----Original Message----- From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:33 PM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Format and deprecation in general Ken, Thank you for your note. I tend to agree with you on this one. In fact I have the same thinking about some of the other "deprecation" topics, such as Use_Init_Output, etc... I am not sure if you were present in the meeting a few weeks ago when we talked about deprecation for some time, and I was voicing similar thought as you do in this message. While the discussion was still going, one of the attendees sent me a link in a chat window with the definition of "deprecation" in Wikipedia, which states that deprecation is a preparation for elimination, kind of a warning that in the future something will go away, but not an immediate removal of that item. To me this came across as if the person wanted to tell me that we should not eliminate things abruptly from our specification, giving time for people to get used to the changes. The problem I have with this thinking is exactly what you are saying. During the transition period, both the old and new ways have to be supported. This makes things more complicated. In our case, when the flow will most likely require different algorithms as well as models, I really don't see why it is a good idea to support the Use_Init_Output Boolean for a while, when the new flow would ignore it anyway. You can't write a new model for the new flow and reasonably expect that this Boolean would have any use. On the other hand, old models which do use this Boolean would rely on the old flow, so there is no reason to mix the new flow with the existing Boolean. Since the changes we make in the spec will most likely require a version number to tell the tool how to go about using the model, to me it would make sense to abandon some of the deprecation items right away without any overlapping between the existing and the new specifications. If someone can bring up a compelling reason to the contrary, I may change my mind, but so far I don't see any reasons for doing things piece mail. Thanks, Arpad =================================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Ken Willis [mailto:kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 3:36 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad; 'IBIS-ATM' Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] IBIS-ATM teleconference - Agenda for 9/14/2010 > Format Hi Arpad, Here is the feedback on "Format" which you requested me to send through email. If we were completely doing away with Format, that would be one thing. But the current proposal is to still support that, plus also support NOT having it there. It doesn't seem like we are really simplifying anything then; instead we are adding more things that will need to be supported. I think that is going in the wrong direction, adding more complexity to the spec. The software coding purists don't like Format, but if it is there already, and it isn't going to go away, then adding support for Format's ABSENCE is more trouble than it is worth. This is just one opinion of course, and I am curious to see if anybody else agrees. It seems like there are bigger fish to fry than this one. Thanks, Ken Willis Sigrity, Inc. 860-871-7070 kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:28 AM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] IBIS-ATM teleconference - Agenda for 9/14/2010 Time: September 14, 2010 Noon US Pacific Daylight Time ===== Audio: ====== Voice dial-in: (800) 637-5822 International: +1 (647) 723-3937 <--- (For Canada) 0114501530 <--- (For Sweden) 0201400572 <--- (For Sweden Toll Free) 069509594672 <--- (For Germany) 08001014542 <--- (For Germany Toll free) Access Code: 685-0440 Web === Click Here to Join Live Meeting: http://tinyurl.com/yvmesj or: https://www.livemeeting.com/cc/sisoft/join?id=NKQQN3&role=attend&pw=TP8j %23-%25%7E5 Mentor Global Crossing Teleconference commands: http://www.globalcrossing.com/customer/collaboration/cust_ready_access_t ips.aspx FIRST TIME USERS: To save time before the meeting, check your system to make sure it is compatible with Microsoft Office Live Meeting. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Agenda ====== 1) Opens 2) Call for any related patent disclosures 3) Review of ARs: Authors of the flow BIRD: Correct the text in the areas discussed in the meeting. Any new AR-s? Old ARs: - Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft) for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the parameter passing syntax of the AMI models - not done - TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE [External ...] also? - Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries. - deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do 4) Quick review of the Task List (Arpad) 5) Introducing new BIRD drafts (see attachments) (Arpad) - MinTypMax_BIRD_1 - Typos_Format_Value_Default_BIRD_1 6) Discuss Walter's three BIRD drafts: - Format - Labels - Value_Default 7) Update on Walter's flow BIRD draft (Walter) - editorial comments and questions - dealing with the deprecation of Use_Init_Output Thanks, Arpad ===================================================================== --------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS Macro website : http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/ IBIS Macro reflector: //www.freelists.org/list/ibis-macro To unsubscribe send an email: To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: unsubscribe --------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS Macro website : http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/ IBIS Macro reflector: //www.freelists.org/list/ibis-macro To unsubscribe send an email: To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: unsubscribe