[ibis-macro] Minutes from 9/14 ibis-atm meeting
- From: "Randy Wolff (rrwolff)" <rrwolff@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:29:10 -0600
Minutes from the 9/14 IBIS-ATM meeting are attached.
Randy
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 14 September 2010
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Adge Hawes, IBM
* Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brad Brim, Sigrity
Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
Chris Herrick, Ansoft
Chris McGrath, Synopsys
Danil Kirsanov, Ansoft
David Banas, Xilinx
Deepak Ramaswany, Ansoft
Donald Telian, consultant
Doug White, Cisco Systems
Eckhard Lenski, Nokia-Siemens Networks
Eckhard Miersch, Sigrity
Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
* Fangyi Rao, Agilent
Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
Gang Kang, Sigrity
Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
Ian Dodd, consultant
Jerry Chuang, Xilinx
Joe Abler, IBM
* John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
John Shields, Mentor Graphics
* Ken Willis, Sigrity
Kellee Crisafulli, Celsionix
Kumar Keshavan, Sigrity
Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems
* Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
Paul Fernando, NCSU
Pavani Jella, TI
Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Ray Komow, Cadence Design Systems
Richard Mellitz, Intel
Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
Samuel Mertens, Ansoft
Sam Chitwood, Sigrity
Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
Scott McMorrow, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems
Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
Steve Kaufer, Mentor Graphics
Steve Pytel, Ansoft
Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
Ted Mido, Synopsys
Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
* Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov, Mentor Graphics
Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
Vuk Borich, Agilent
* Walter Katz, SiSoft
Wenyi Jin, LSI Logic
Zhen Mu, Mentor Graphics
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opens:
- Michael Mirmak noted discussion in the last Open Forum meeting about
updating
the IBIS specification to a Word-like document. He asked TechAmerica for
information about costs and timelines associated with this.
- Arpad: What is your take on reformatting the specification?
Are you willing to entertain this? Should it be discussed here or in the
Open Forum?
- Michael: As policy goes, BIRDs are submitted and may cover whatever as long
as they fit within the template provided. No policy difference whether you
choose to refine one concept at a time or a large BIRD changing a whole
section.
- Arpad: What about making AMI its own spec separated out and formatted
differently?
- Michael: If you want to do this, submit a BIRD to say you are removing a
section (6c) from the spec and include cross references to a new spec
(either in that BIRD or another one). Any keywords in brackets should
still
be within the IBIS specification.
- Walter: Restated plan to remove AMI from the spec.
- Michael: if just a formatting concern, go to a separate document to include
graphics, etc. If the problem is that IBIS in a text format, the cleanest
change would be to convert the IBIS specification into a new format, making
no technical changes to it and re-approve it.
- Walter: Some sections have schematics done with line art. Would it be a
requirement that all graphics in the whole specification be updated to a
modern format? This is a massive task.
- Michael: We are in a race, so if we find that we can update IBIS quickly,
the AMI portion could be updated at the same time, and it could be decided
at the last minute if AMI becomes separate or part of a reformatted IBIS
specification.
- Todd: Are the Word and PDF versions of the IBIS specification on the web
legal versions?
- Michael: Just there for readability. They are all legal versions. Output
format can be anything like PDF. Real question is what the input format
is,
such as Word, Framemaker, etc. He is hoping TechAmerica will have a
template
that makes sense for us to use to help standardize the process.
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- none
-------------
Review of ARs:
- Authors of Flow BIRD: Correct text in the areas discussed in the meeting
- Still open.
- Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
for -AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
parameter passing syntax of the AMI models
- TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
- [External ...] also?
- TBD
- Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
- Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do
-------------
New Discussion:
Arpad reviewed the IBIS-ATM pending task list spreadsheet and BIRDs that are
expected to follow from it:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Row 6 - Model_Specific - taken care of in new BIRD -
Typos_Format_Value_Default_BIRD_1.txt
Row 16 - Will be discussed today.
Row 17 - Will ask Walter if he can include his Format info in this new BIRD too.
Row 19 - Also addressed in this new BIRD.
Row 20 - Turned out to be a false alarm.
- Walter: One thing discussed in Open Forum - if we submit a BIRD for one small
item, we have many overlapping BIRDs to submit. If we agree in principle
about an idea, we could say that all things will get solved in the final edit.
- Arpad: Is starting to make comments in his new BIRD that document the ideas
of
what is being fixed, but doesn't give the exact language change for the spec.
- Bob: Would like to add a Description BIRD, wondering if Description could be
made optional for everything.
- Arpad: Added this as Row 26 in the spreadsheet.
Discussion on the Clarifying min/typ/max in IBIS-AMI BIRD:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Arpad: Walter sent a private message about making them min<=typ<=max. Walter
wanted to add min < max in the BIRD. This creates a mathematical
inconsistency.
- Ken: What difference does it make how the sweep works, i.e. as written
starting at typ, going up to max, then going closest to min.
- Walter: Wording makes sure that typ is always included in the sweep.
- John: Doesn't think we need to include text about how the EDA software
should do the sweep.
- Todd: Purpose is to define the allowed values only.
- Arpad: This is covered by the previous description.
- Todd: Agrees, the EDA description is not needed.
- Bob: Does think the expression needs to be min<=typ<=max, agreeing with
Walter.
- Arpad: Should we say that min < max?
- Walter: Seems silly to allow min=max, but it doesn't matter that much.
- Arpad: Under which circumstances do we have defaults for the various formats?
This should be addressed in a separate BIRD.
Discussion on the IBIS-AMI Typographical Corrections BIRD:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Arpad: New BIRD to clean up inconsistencies in the text. Page 140: Usage
becomes required. Type becomes required. Format becomes optional and is
deprecated. Examples using Usage, Type, and Format are corrected.
- Ambrish: Alarmed by seeing Format without an indication of it being optional
- Arpad: There isn't a mechanism to define 'optional' in the specification
- Walter: Ambrish is saying that [] are used as optional indicators in other
software
- Arpad: Doesn't like that [] are used in IBIS keywords. Could use {}.
Further comments, please send an email. If I change to using the French
brackets {}, should I include the language of preferred and optional
language? Will find a way to indicate the preferred/optional language in a
mild way.
Discussion on including Walter's Format and Values BIRDs in the new BIRD:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Walter: OK with this as long as Label is not included. If treatment of
Format
is not a consensus, we need to vote on it.
- Ken: Plans to comment on Format in an email.
Discussion on Walter's Flow BIRD:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Arpad: Would like to see comments on this BIRD.
- Bob: Confused on Use_Init_Output boolean as written in the BIRD.
- Arpad: Are we allowing people to continue using Use_Init_Output in new
models?
- Bob: Has anyone ever used this?
- Arpad: If someone writes a model without this boolean, nothing will be
broken.
- Walter: Has been in the crossfire. He is waiting for others to decide on some
small points. The model should tell the tool what flow to use. The models
are reference flows only.
- Ken: Doesn't like special flow for Rx to Tx_Init case.
- Walter: These are reference flows only, but it doesn't say that the
reference flow is the right flow to use to get the answer.
- Ken: Will talk with Walter more this week.
- Walter: Ken should discuss issues with Arpad.
Minutes ended at 1:07pm PT.
Next meeting: 21 Sep 2010 12:00pm PT
--------
IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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