OK, below is a hastily created welcome message. Note that I am not, by nature, a rules guy. I would rather not have to be specific about any set rules, but I've been on enough lists over the last dozen plus years to know that an unfortunate aspect of human nature is that it's best to have some sort of list of guidelines. If there aren't any, well, that invites trouble, so please see below. If you have any questions or comments or suggestions, please feel free to email me off list. If you have list experience and would possibly be interested in being a mod at some point, please also let me know. **************** WELCOME TO THE MAC4THEBLIND MAILING LIST. This list is intended as a mailing list for discussing the use of the Mac by blind users. Specifically, VoiceOver and related topics are always welcomed. The topics of the iPod, iPhone and iPad are also open for discussion as well. It is hoped that this list will provide yet another source for blind Mac users to obtain help and advice for any technical issues they might have. We understand perfectly well that there are other lists that relate to these topics, and our intent is to simply provide yet another place for users to come if they desire. As for some basic rules or points of interest about the mac4theblind mailing list: 1. Please note that this is not a Windows list. Although running Windows via Boot Camp or in a virtual machine environment can be discussed, those are the extent of such topics. 2. This is not a casual discussion list. There are other lists out there for general discussions relating to a variety of subjects. Please keep all post on topic as they relate to the Mac, VoiceOver and iDevices. Many people are subscribed to multiple lists, and do not appreciate off topic messages cluttering their inboxes. Please show respect by keeping all posts on topic. 3. Any and All personal attacks directed at any list members are not welcomed at all. Any member engaging in such behavior can be removed from the list without warning. Topics can certainly become heated at times, but we please ask that you show intelligence, restraint and tolerance in your posts. 4. Cursing and other explicit language is also not tolerated. Adults or not, there is no need or excuse for using foul language on a public list. Ones use of four letter words and the like does not illustrate ones intelligence or creativity. We hear enough of it in every day life, so we'd appreciate not having it on this list. If you cannot control yourself, you will be asked to tone it down or you will be removed from this list. 5. Please keep all posts substantive. Again, many people receive list traffic from a variety of other lists. Messages that simply agree with a previous post, thank another user with a simple, "thank you", or "thanks" and one line comments are not productive or helpful. Please put thought into your posts and make them count. 6. There is no such thing as a dumb question. Not asking a question is dumb. Whether your are an experienced user or a new comer to the Mac and iDevices, we welcome all questions. We want this list to be helpful and useful, so even if a topic has come up a bunch of times, it might be new to someone else who comes along. 7. If you are new to the Mac and iDevices, you might want to check out the below sites for helpful information and tutorials. http://www.apple.com/accessibility http://www.maccessibility.net http://www.icanworkthisthing.com http://www.mac-access.net http://www.applevis.com 8. Apple bashing or the bashing of other companies, including adaptive technology companies and blindness organizations for the sake of bashing or to stir up controversy is not acceptable here. No company is perfect and the criticisms or displeasures one might find are perfectly fine, but keep such comments in good taste and within reason. If there is a blatant disrespect or simple bashing demonstrated in a post, the member will be warned. If they persist along those lines, they will be removed from this list. Again, many people are subscribed to many lists, so let's keep subjects on topic and productive. Bashing serves no purpose at all. 9. The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to their list subscription is: //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: tvii@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Once again, we thank you for joining the mac4theblind list! Take Care John D. Panarese Managing Director Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc. 9 Nolan Court Hauppauge, NY 11788 Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479 Email, tvii@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA, PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS, DUXBURY, SEROTEK AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT