Carol Reese Ornamental Horticulture Specialist -Western District University of Tennessee Extension Service 605 Airways Blvd. Jackson TN 38301 731 425 4721 email jreese5@xxxxxxx Thank you all for trying to "impart logic" into this discussion (implication being?) I found it amusing that Mr. Roy stated several times that he had no beef against "us", yet his choices of words reveal otherwise. Just be straight up with me, I can take it! Thanks Meredith, for bravely wading in there! If I ever get into a bar room brawl, I hope you are there! Mr. Roy's comments about Rottweilers eating cats were interesting, and I will answer them this way. I grew up on a farm in Mississippi. Our dogs and cats ran loose and so did everyone else's (with the exception of Daddy's highly bred bird dogs). If a dog, one of ours, or a neighbors's became a problem, killing peafowl, or chasing milk cows, or killing cats, then you gave your neighbor warning (friendly) and if they didn't take some action, the offending animal was shot. This was understood. If a person's cows got out and crapped all over your yard, or if their horses got into your sweet corn, you let them know, and they made retribution, and took care of the problem, or if they didn't, you took stronger steps. Everyone hunted, crossed each other's fences, ate what they killed and no one shot anyone else's dog just for running a rabbit or deer across the property lines. Just recently, where I live in the hills of Henderson County, my dogs killed some goats. Of course the goats were in my front yard eating my precious Japanese maples (yes, I sometimes use non-native plants in my landscape!) I called the owner of the goats, paid him what the goats were worth, and built fence around my yard that the goats (which still roam) can't cross, and the dogs only get out to run through the woods and fields (almost every day!) when I am with them. If a Rottweiler came and killed a cat of mine today, I would warn the owner, and then if I came out to find another cat, or one of my smaller dogs in the Rottweiler's jaws, I would shoot it. It is a simple matter of protecting the animals that I consider to be part of my family. If someone shot and killed one of my dogs while in was in their yard killing their cat, I would understand. When you live in the country (or anywhere, really) animals are part of the mosaic, things happen, and yes, it is still "evolution at work" because it weeds out animmals that are "problems" and leaves those that are better mannered. You may see this as "irresponsible pet ownership" Mr. Roy, but then, I dont' see myself as any animal's owner - friend and caretaker to some, enemy to others that threaten me or my "tribe". When a stray shows up at my house (and all of my animals are ones that found me and needned my help, either at home or somewhere on the road, I do what I think is best for it. Good food, shelter, medical care, neutering. In my mind, I would consider it irresponsible to the animal if I chose to keep it cofined for the rest of its life, or on a leash. I choose to let it have a life that includes occasional hunting. There is a lot of killing going on out there as Wallace pointed out (and surely you understood, Wallace, that I have no problem with how many quail are killed by Cooper's hawks - I was making the point that one of the predators we "approve" is the major predator on quail). I still take issue with the statement that cats "wreak havoc" on bird populations, even if they do kill birds in the millions. Show me where they have influenced populations of critical species (in the U.S.) Otherwise, I still say they are simply filling a niche left by decimation of native predators. As Wallace points out, there is lots of killing going on out there, and management has often been skewed to favor the species that man likes to hunt. The point about all this killing is best made by Joseph Campbell (I believe in his book "The Power of Myth") that life is a process of killing and eating other living things. This is not sad, except in my mind, some of the excesses, like the vast pig and chicken "factories" that supply our nations huge meat appetite (I am a carnivore, but I prefer wild game, or locally raised free-range animals) or the countless numbers of animals crushed under our wheels of our cars. These deaths bother me. My cat killing 3 or 4 (forgive my "naivete" Mr. Roy) or even many dozens of birds each year doesn't . When I fly, and look down at the earth, I see what the main problem is for wildlife, Mr. Roy, and it is #@%*!*#@* man and his enterprises. I do realize that domestic cats could be counted as one of these but in the big picture, who is being illogical? In the long run, I have faith in what I think may be called "the Gaia principle". If I understand it correctly, the earth will continue to evolve and adapt to its many changes. If we screw up badly enough, she will rise up and smite us off the face of this globe, and hopefully a kinder, gentler species of hominid will emerge. I find that comforting. =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 =========================================================