[bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel
- From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 13:57:02 -0500
Could we please change the subject? We've about talked this one out.
Thanks.
Sue S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Loran Bailey" <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:34 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel
I just looked up the word profane on Google. As with most words, there were
a number of definitions that came up. Most are just different wording of the
same thing. The most frequent ones claim that it is virtually the same thing
as secular. That is, having nothing to do with religion. In that case, even
the most religious of people use profanity in virtually every sentence they
utter. If, in order to avoid profanity, one must use religious terms
exclusively then communication would be impossible. Another frequent use of
the word was that profanity expresses contempt for things that are
religious. In that case, I am a profane person and proud of it. The word
sacred was also used. That is, profanity is either not sacred or expresses
contempt of the sacred. That begs the question of which religion are you
talking about. Different religions declare different things sacred and
apparently the speech of anyone, again even the most religious, would have
to be considered profane by members of another religion. Now, this leaves a
lot of room for opinion about what is profane. And as for myself, if
profanity is banned or relegated to the restricted or held up as something
to be contemptuous of as profanity itself then I vigorously protest that my
own opinions on religion be treated in this manner.
Actually, though, I have noticed that those who object to profanity seem to
not quite know what the word actually means. If it means simply something
that has nothing to do with religion then they are using it correctly, but
they seem to pick and choose which words that have nothing to do with
religion are to be declared profanity. It is usually used for simple
exclamations. If someone bangs his or her finger and says ouch then the word
ouch is not unlikely to be declared profane. It is not exclusively used for
exclamations though. I have heard the word profanity used against people who
simply mentioned what they had just done in the bathroom. All in all, it
appears that profanity is most frequently used to describe anything that the
person using it does not like. Well, everyone has his or her likes and
dislikes and I, for one, do not feel obligated to tip-toe around trying to
figure out what someone's likes and dislikes might be and giving thought to
my every word so as to not offend them. I can assure you that no one ever
bothers to avoid offending me and those who are the most worried about
profanity tend to be the most offensive to me. That is their right though.
They are also not responsible for figuring out what bothers me and
tip-toeing around me either. Ultimately, though, it still amounts to
profanity being a matter of opinion. Perhaps it is because I do not feel
obligated to tip-toe with every word I utter, but I have never learned to
predict with certainty what will set off a prude or right-winger.
_ _ _
"As a woman I have no country. As a woman my country is the world"
Virginia Woolf
The Militant:
http://www.themilitant.com
Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International:
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:34 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel
Well, to say that a book contains profanity (the word I couldn't think of
before of before or explicit sex or violence or torture obscenities is
stating facts rather than opinion--though I admit that "strong language
might be opinion. smile. Putting these in the synopsis is preferable, I
think. I use the review for expressing my opinion as to whether the book is
we ell-written or, is perhaps outlandish but worth reading or is dull--that
sort of thing
Cindy
Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and
books-being-scanned list available at sites below
Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
Books Being Scanned List:
https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
--- On Sat, 3/27/10, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 5:46 PM
> It would work for me. Like I said, I
> am all for the disemination of information and such labels
> would be informational, not an imposition. Admittedly, I
> might be a bit perplexed if a book is labeled as containing
> strong language and I read it and find myself asking where
> is the strong language. That has happened to me on several
> occasions with NLS books. That is why I tend to think that
> such labels belong in the reviews section. That is where
> opinions belong. In fact, if you look up a book entitled
> "When Wizards Rule" you will find that I wrote a review that
> amounts to -- even if I was not thinking of it that way when
> I wrote it -- a label that the book contains explicit
> descriptions of sex.
>
>
> _ _ _
>
> "As a woman I have no country. As a woman my country is the
> world"
> Virginia Woolf
>
> The Militant:
> http://www.themilitant.com
> Pathfinder Press:
> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> Granma International:
> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "gwen tweedy" <gstweedy@xxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:50 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by
> Elie Weisel
>
>
> > I didn't think of that.
> > Couldn't they take the adult content off altogether
> and just put the little labels on there the tags of what is
> in them and not rate them would that work?
> > Gwen
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Smith"
> <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:17 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more
> books by Elie Weisel
> >
> >
> >> The reason many consider it censorship is that,
> only those over 18 are able to download the books marked
> adult content. There are some books, or so I've heard, that
> are marked adult content, but are required reading for high
> school students. Most high school students aren't over 18,
> and therefore, couldn't download the books. When I was in
> high school, I read several books that could be marked as
> having adult content.
> >>
> >> Melissa Smith
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/27/2010 4:10 PM, gwen tweedy wrote:
> >>> But I'm not talking about Censorship, in
> fact it wouldn't be censorship at all.
> >>> It would just be telling about the
> language content or other in the book. It
> wouldn't mean a person couldn't read it, nor would it mean
> anyone was trying to stop them from reading it.
> >>> It would just mean if a person didn't want to
> stumble upon it, they wouldn't need to that is all.
> >>> To me there is no censorship to it.
> >>> Because it's not telling you can nor can't,
> nor is it barring any books.
> >>> It's simply a designation for those who feel
> more comfortable knowing fully what they are down loading.
> >>> TV says PG-13 R G and on it goes, does that
> mean people don't watch the shows oh and I forgot X-rating
> in movies or shows, does that mean folks don't nor can't
> watch them.
> >>> Certainly not, a body can do what a person
> wants and likes, it is simply a label designation.
> >>> It doesn't mean a person can, nor a person
> can't! It means absolutely nothing, except a designation.
> >>> I guess I don't feel that is censorship.
> >>> If you were told what to do and not to do, if
> the head here said no no we can't have this or that book up,
> then you'd have real reason to call it censorship, because
> then they would be squelching your rights as you would see
> them.
> >>> But no one has done that, nor will they.
> >>> It is the same access to the same books no
> lock and key, just simply letters for those who wish to know
> what is in it.
> >>> Nothing more, nothing less no censorship
> involved.
> >>> Gwen
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger
> Loran Bailey" <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:29 PM
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list:
> more books by Elie Weisel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Bingo! And I am one of those who does not
> check it for anything., As far as I am concerned it is
> completely unjustified to prohibit anyone from reading
> anything he or she wants because of status. Can you imagine
> it if some self appointed member of the morality police
> decided that people who are blind should not be allowed to
> read certain things because it happens to offend that
> morality policeman's sensibilities without regard to how the
> blind person might feel about it?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _ _
> _
> >>>>
> >>>> "As a woman I have no country. As a woman
> my country is the world"
> >>>> Virginia Woolf
> >>>>
> >>>> The Militant:
> >>>> http://www.themilitant.com
> >>>> Pathfinder Press:
> >>>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> >>>> Granma International:
> >>>> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:
> "Melissa Smith" <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:02 AM
> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish
> list: more books by Elie Weisel
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> The reason that the designation
> doesn't make a lot of sense, is that the proofer can uncheck
> or check the adult content designation. Many feel that the
> adult content is a form of censorship, and don't check it
> for anything.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Melissa Smith
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 3/27/2010 1:32 AM, John J. Boyer
> wrote:
> >>>>>> It is easy for anyone to download
> books that are full of sex scenes, and
> >>>>>> not even "nice" sex. I've been
> disappointed by some books of Robert
> >>>>>> Heinlein. Any child can download
> these. I'll probably change my setting
> >>>>>> to include "adult" books, since
> the designation seems not to make much
> >>>>>> sense.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:25:23AM
> -0500, Valerie Maples wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Someone told us that there is
> an actual standard because of the grant that rates books
> based on word frequencies and situations that cause them to
> generate the adult material designation. I do believe the F.
> word is one of the ones that is considered serious and is an
> automatic designation. A series of moderate occurrences can
> also generate the adult designation. It makes sense that
> there would be a criterion with so many books being
> available to young readers so that it would remove
> accidental inappropriate downloads.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Having said that, apparently
> there were a couple of books that could find no reason for
> those designations, those they allowed a proofreader to
> remove it if there was absolutely no risk to young readers.
> I'm not trying to start a controversy here, just state what
> I was told how the adult designation came to be utilized. As
> a parent, even though Nichole is not completely independent
> in downloading, I am grateful that there is some boundary.
> It is easy enough for a child to get an exemption with
> parental approval.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Valerie
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:59 PM,
> Jamie Yates, CPhT wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Some books get marked as
> adult because the proofreader finds the material to be very
> sensitive. I only mark books adult if they are sexually
> graphic but often Bookshare takes and marks my books adult
> for me. I find the Penny Warner books about the small town
> newspaper reporter who is deaf always get marked adult
> because she is fond of the f word. Her sex scenes are always
> very very very bland so it isn't the few and far between sex
> scenes, it has to be her colorful language.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've scanned many other
> books which Bookshare automatically marked adult and as the
> scanner I cannot unmark it. Only the proofreader can do it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm told that many Elie
> Weisel books are now required reading in high schools these
> days so probably Bookshare should be made aware of the
> situation so they can assess it.
> >>>>>>>>
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