[bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
Thank you, Evan RThar's what I thought. smile
Cindy
Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and books-being-scanned
list available at sites below
Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
Books Being Scanned List:
https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
--- On Sun, 3/28/10, EVAN REESE <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: EVAN REESE <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sunday, March 28, 2010, 11:07 AM
> Roger, you are overly dedicated to
> pedantry. And, yes, I do know what the word means.
>
> However, you don't seem to know the difference between
> denotation and connotation. Denotation is what the
> dictionary says; connotation is what most people think of
> when they hear a word. When people hear the word "profanity"
> they are thinking of a very narrowly defined group of words.
> Most people understand that when they use the word. Your
> lecture on the meaning of the word "profane" is therefore
> entirely beside the point.
>
> Evan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey"
> <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:34 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by
> Elie Weisel
>
>
> > I just looked up the word profane on Google. As with
> most words, there were a number of definitions that came up.
> Most are just different wording of the same thing. The most
> frequent ones claim that it is virtually the same thing as
> secular. That is, having nothing to do with religion. In
> that case, even the most religious of people use profanity
> in virtually every sentence they utter. If, in order to
> avoid profanity, one must use religious terms exclusively
> then communication would be impossible. Another frequent use
> of the word was that profanity expresses contempt for things
> that are religious. In that case, I am a profane person and
> proud of it. The word sacred was also used. That is,
> profanity is either not sacred or expresses contempt of the
> sacred. That begs the question of which religion are you
> talking about. Different religions declare different things
> sacred and apparently the speech of anyone, again even the
> most religious, would have to be considered profane by
> members of another religion. Now, this leaves a lot of room
> for opinion about what is profane. And as for myself, if
> profanity is banned or relegated to the restricted or held
> up as something to be contemptuous of as profanity itself
> then I vigorously protest that my own opinions on religion
> be treated in this manner.
> > Actually, though, I have noticed that those who object
> to profanity seem to not quite know what the word actually
> means. If it means simply something that has nothing to do
> with religion then they are using it correctly, but they
> seem to pick and choose which words that have nothing to do
> with religion are to be declared profanity. It is usually
> used for simple exclamations. If someone bangs his or her
> finger and says ouch then the word ouch is not unlikely to
> be declared profane. It is not exclusively used for
> exclamations though. I have heard the word profanity used
> against people who simply mentioned what they had just done
> in the bathroom. All in all, it appears that profanity is
> most frequently used to describe anything that the person
> using it does not like. Well, everyone has his or her likes
> and dislikes and I, for one, do not feel obligated to
> tip-toe around trying to figure out what someone's likes and
> dislikes might be and giving thought to my every word so as
> to not offend them. I can assure you that no one ever
> bothers to avoid offending me and those who are the most
> worried about profanity tend to be the most offensive to me.
> That is their right though. They are also not responsible
> for figuring out what bothers me and tip-toeing around me
> either. Ultimately, though, it still amounts to profanity
> being a matter of opinion. Perhaps it is because I do not
> feel obligated to tip-toe with every word I utter, but I
> have never learned to predict with certainty what will set
> off a prude or right-winger.
> >
> >
> > _ _ _
> >
> > "As a woman I have no country. As a woman my country
> is the world"
> > Virginia Woolf
> >
> > The Militant:
> > http://www.themilitant.com
> > Pathfinder Press:
> > http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> > Granma International:
> > http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:34 AM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more
> books by Elie Weisel
> >
> >
> > Well, to say that a book contains profanity (the word
> I couldn't think of before of before or explicit sex or
> violence or torture obscenities is stating facts
> rather than opinion--though I admit that "strong language
> might be opinion. smile. Putting these in the synopsis is
> preferable, I think. I use the review for expressing my
> opinion as to whether the book is we ell-written or, is
> perhaps outlandish but worth reading or is dull--that sort
> of thing
> > Cindy
> >
> > Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection)
> and books-being-scanned list available at sites below
> >
> >
> >
> > Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
> >
> > Books Being Scanned List:
> > https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 3/27/10, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more
> books by Elie Weisel
> >> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 5:46 PM
> >> It would work for me. Like I said, I
> >> am all for the disemination of information and
> such labels
> >> would be informational, not an imposition.
> Admittedly, I
> >> might be a bit perplexed if a book is labeled as
> containing
> >> strong language and I read it and find myself
> asking where
> >> is the strong language. That has happened to me on
> several
> >> occasions with NLS books. That is why I tend to
> think that
> >> such labels belong in the reviews section. That is
> where
> >> opinions belong. In fact, if you look up a book
> entitled
> >> "When Wizards Rule" you will find that I wrote a
> review that
> >> amounts to -- even if I was not thinking of it
> that way when
> >> I wrote it -- a label that the book contains
> explicit
> >> descriptions of sex.
> >>
> >>
> >> _ _ _
> >>
> >> "As a woman I have no country. As a woman my
> country is the
> >> world"
> >> Virginia Woolf
> >>
> >> The Militant:
> >> http://www.themilitant.com
> >> Pathfinder Press:
> >> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> >> Granma International:
> >> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "gwen tweedy"
> <gstweedy@xxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:50 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more
> books by
> >> Elie Weisel
> >>
> >>
> >> > I didn't think of that.
> >> > Couldn't they take the adult content off
> altogether
> >> and just put the little labels on there the tags
> of what is
> >> in them and not rate them would that work?
> >> > Gwen
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa
> Smith"
> >> <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:17 PM
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list:
> more
> >> books by Elie Weisel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> The reason many consider it censorship is
> that,
> >> only those over 18 are able to download the books
> marked
> >> adult content. There are some books, or so I've
> heard, that
> >> are marked adult content, but are required reading
> for high
> >> school students. Most high school students aren't
> over 18,
> >> and therefore, couldn't download the books. When I
> was in
> >> high school, I read several books that could be
> marked as
> >> having adult content.
> >> >>
> >> >> Melissa Smith
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 3/27/2010 4:10 PM, gwen tweedy wrote:
> >> >>> But I'm not talking about Censorship,
> in
> >> fact it wouldn't be censorship at all.
> >> >>> It would just be telling about the
> >> language content or other in the book. It
> >> wouldn't mean a person couldn't read it, nor would
> it mean
> >> anyone was trying to stop them from reading it.
> >> >>> It would just mean if a person didn't
> want to
> >> stumble upon it, they wouldn't need to that is
> all.
> >> >>> To me there is no censorship to it.
> >> >>> Because it's not telling you can nor
> can't,
> >> nor is it barring any books.
> >> >>> It's simply a designation for those
> who feel
> >> more comfortable knowing fully what they are down
> loading.
> >> >>> TV says PG-13 R G and on it goes,
> does that
> >> mean people don't watch the shows oh and I forgot
> X-rating
> >> in movies or shows, does that mean folks don't nor
> can't
> >> watch them.
> >> >>> Certainly not, a body can do what a
> person
> >> wants and likes, it is simply a label
> designation.
> >> >>> It doesn't mean a person can, nor a
> person
> >> can't! It means absolutely nothing, except a
> designation.
> >> >>> I guess I don't feel that is
> censorship.
> >> >>> If you were told what to do and not
> to do, if
> >> the head here said no no we can't have this or
> that book up,
> >> then you'd have real reason to call it censorship,
> because
> >> then they would be squelching your rights as you
> would see
> >> them.
> >> >>> But no one has done that, nor will
> they.
> >> >>> It is the same access to the same
> books no
> >> lock and key, just simply letters for those who
> wish to know
> >> what is in it.
> >> >>> Nothing more, nothing less no
> censorship
> >> involved.
> >> >>> Gwen
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From:
> "Roger
> >> Loran Bailey" <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
> >> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:29
> PM
> >> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For
> wish list:
> >> more books by Elie Weisel
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Bingo! And I am one of those who
> does not
> >> check it for anything., As far as I am concerned
> it is
> >> completely unjustified to prohibit anyone from
> reading
> >> anything he or she wants because of status. Can
> you imagine
> >> it if some self appointed member of the morality
> police
> >> decided that people who are blind should not be
> allowed to
> >> read certain things because it happens to offend
> that
> >> morality policeman's sensibilities without regard
> to how the
> >> blind person might feel about it?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _ _
> >> _
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "As a woman I have no country. As
> a woman
> >> my country is the world"
> >> >>>> Virginia Woolf
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The Militant:
> >> >>>> http://www.themilitant.com
> >> >>>> Pathfinder Press:
> >> >>>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> >> >>>> Granma International:
> >> >>>> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
> >> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> >> "Melissa Smith" <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010
> 8:02 AM
> >> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For
> wish
> >> list: more books by Elie Weisel
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> The reason that the
> designation
> >> doesn't make a lot of sense, is that the proofer
> can uncheck
> >> or check the adult content designation. Many feel
> that the
> >> adult content is a form of censorship, and don't
> check it
> >> for anything.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Melissa Smith
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On 3/27/2010 1:32 AM, John J.
> Boyer
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> It is easy for anyone to
> download
> >> books that are full of sex scenes, and
> >> >>>>>> not even "nice" sex. I've
> been
> >> disappointed by some books of Robert
> >> >>>>>> Heinlein. Any child can
> download
> >> these. I'll probably change my setting
> >> >>>>>> to include "adult" books,
> since
> >> the designation seems not to make much
> >> >>>>>> sense.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> John
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at
> 12:25:23AM
> >> -0500, Valerie Maples wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Someone told us that
> there is
> >> an actual standard because of the grant that rates
> books
> >> based on word frequencies and situations that
> cause them to
> >> generate the adult material designation. I do
> believe the F.
> >> word is one of the ones that is considered serious
> and is an
> >> automatic designation. A series of moderate
> occurrences can
> >> also generate the adult designation. It makes
> sense that
> >> there would be a criterion with so many books
> being
> >> available to young readers so that it would
> remove
> >> accidental inappropriate downloads.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Having said that,
> apparently
> >> there were a couple of books that could find no
> reason for
> >> those designations, those they allowed a
> proofreader to
> >> remove it if there was absolutely no risk to young
> readers.
> >> I'm not trying to start a controversy here, just
> state what
> >> I was told how the adult designation came to be
> utilized. As
> >> a parent, even though Nichole is not completely
> independent
> >> in downloading, I am grateful that there is some
> boundary.
> >> It is easy enough for a child to get an exemption
> with
> >> parental approval.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Valerie
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Mar 26, 2010, at
> 11:59 PM,
> >> Jamie Yates, CPhT wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Some books get
> marked as
> >> adult because the proofreader finds the material
> to be very
> >> sensitive. I only mark books adult if they are
> sexually
> >> graphic but often Bookshare takes and marks my
> books adult
> >> for me. I find the Penny Warner books about the
> small town
> >> newspaper reporter who is deaf always get marked
> adult
> >> because she is fond of the f word. Her sex scenes
> are always
> >> very very very bland so it isn't the few and far
> between sex
> >> scenes, it has to be her colorful language.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> I've scanned many
> other
> >> books which Bookshare automatically marked adult
> and as the
> >> scanner I cannot unmark it. Only the proofreader
> can do it.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> I'm told that
> many Elie
> >> Weisel books are now required reading in high
> schools these
> >> days so probably Bookshare should be made aware of
> the
> >> situation so they can assess it.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> To
> >> unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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