Yes, and it seems to be a gradual process, one cant just let go of all
that. Often it is difficult to let go even of the things we know, which are
at work in ourselves, but what chance have we got with the things we are not
even , as jet, aware of?
To give a little example: In my schooldays I had dyslexia quite strongly.
It is pretty much gone now. Over the years I thought that this would not
have anymore effect on me. A while ago this subject came up again, and with
help, against my resistance, which I was unaware off, I had another look
at the effect the dyslexia still had on me.
In the workshops I gave afterwards, in the 40+ constellations, in 4
constellations dyslexia of the clients showed up as a very disturbing
factor of their life.
A burden in the clients systems, which I could not place before, suddenly
made sense and could be resolved. I guess that without my new inner
knowledge of this energies, I would not have found the doorway for the
clients to start to dissolve this disturbing factor in their lifes.
So my question: I know that often in constellations dynamics completely
unknown to me show up and lead to a resolution, but in other instances,
like the one above with dyslexia, it does not seem to be possible to
perceive what is happening, without having seen and felt a dynamic like that
before.
What are the factors why that is so?
The only factor I have seen so far is, that the unknown dynamics which often
revile themselves, that they are outer dynamics like family systems.
The ones which dont show, without knowing some knowledge in that direction
before, are inner movements, like dyslexia.
Is there anything else?
Thomas
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Im Auftrag von David Grillo
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Juni 2005 19:08
An: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: [ConstellationTalk] phenomenology
I believe that to have a phenomenological stance one has to let go of the
outcome, of proving her/himself, of letting go even of our neuroses, or
working with it while befriending it....that would take a lot of experience
david
-------Original Message-------
From: Barbara Stones <mailto:Barbara@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/14/05 16:24:50
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] phenomenology
Hi Thomas
I've only just joined ConstellationTalk and am following this debate with
interest but I've missed out on some earlier communications. You refer to a
list Chris made: "Chris made that wonderful list, and there are plenty of
different ways to do our inner work. Both, for me, are lifelong journeys."
Could you forward a copy of this list if it's possible
Many thanks
Barbara Stones
Barbara Stones
Barbara@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Barbara@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
59 Englewood Road
Clapham South
London SW12 9PB
TEL:020 8673 2508
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Falke" < thomas@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:thomas@xxxxxxxxx> >
To: < ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:20 PM
Subject: AW: [ConstellationTalk] phenomenology
Hi Babara,<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
thanks for that!
There seems to be some ideas around, that one can just put on the hat of
being now phenomelogical, instead of coming from experience, and then all
will be well.
Hunter Beaumont was quoted as having said:
Hunter said that experience did not mean a good facilitator of
constellations, someone brand new to it may be able to hold the
phenomenological posture better than an old master!!
It feels true to me, that experience ALONE does not make a good
facilitator,
and that someone coming from a true phenomenological posture might be
better, BUT it takes a lot of work and experience to get to a place
where
one can be in a truly phenomenological stance.
I work, as a participant!, with Hunter and Gila Rogers since 5 years in an
ongoing workshop, sometimes 2 weeks, sometimes 4 weeks a year,
and we are still exploring phenomelogical, ( and will be for more years to
come), how we function in ourselves, and in the world. And each and every
time it is a challenge not to go to some old ideas, patterns, movements,
but
to stay with what is.
The more we know how we function, I guess the better we can look unbiased
at
what is, what shows in a constellation, and how much the constellation is
influenced or formed by our own field. To be and stay present it is very
helpful to know what -unconsciously- is pulling us away into dreamland.
And that may be a multitude of things..... different layers of hate, of
the
super ego, systemic influences... you name it!
The more I do this work, the more I find out how naive I have been in
believing that I could just act or perceive freely,- phenomelogical- free
of unknown influences on myself.
There are plenty of ways to get more and more into the constellation work,
Thomas Falke
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Von: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Im Auftrag von Barbara Morgan<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Juni 2005 10:42
An: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: RE: [ConstellationTalk] phenomenology<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From my own understanding of it, if we are truly phenomenological we can'twrite about this stuff at all, as we have to take each situation as it
appears at the time, according to how we feel, how the representatives
feel,
how the client feels, what else is in the field - both at the workshop and
wider field. The orders and underlying theories are background thinking
only.
I remember it being referred to as allowing present experience to
over-ride
belief. For me that means being prepared to let go of any pre-conceived
ideas about what works. On the other hand, they can be very useful! As we
open ourselves up to phenomenology, it becomes clear how contradictory and
paradoxical constellation work (and life!) is.
Being present is how I would sum it up.
Barbara Morgan
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ]On Behalf Of Dan Booth Cohen
Sent: 04 June 2005 13:33<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] phenomenology
We're always in the interplay between formulaic and phenomenological. The
scene you described is more formulaic. It becomes more phenomenological
when you swap them around and they feel worse. Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Chris Walsh
Imagine we are facilitating a constellation. We notice 2 representatives
who
are standing side by side look quite uncomfortable. We then realise that
according to the orders they are on the wrong side of each other. So we
swap
them around. They both sigh and visibly relax so we feel happy with the
intervention.
My current question about this is: What part of this - if any, is
phenomenological?
Hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Website www.constellationflow.com <http://www.constellationflow.com>
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
Attachment:
binT38NdyKD1G.bin
Description: application/ygp-stripped
