Dear Sadhana, Barbara, Robert and All
Thanks for your thoughts; I'd like to add my thoughts on what I've read
from you.
You wrote Sadhana:
"I have to say that my biggest Zen sticks in life have been from such acts
of exclusion by masters in their field. I think the resistant ego is an
unstoppible force that needs to meet an immovable object"
I love Buddhist stories about dealing with Ego resistance and they tell a
lot about relationships with clients in therapy, coaching or SCW. One of
the biggest compliments I've received in my life from my clients - was to
be called *Rafiki* (a character from Disney movie "King Lion") by a 21
years old client, in the end of 90ties when I was facilitating an intensive
group therapy process.
*(Wikipedia: Rafiki meaning - "friend" in Swahili, is a
mandrill<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandrill>who lives in a
baobab <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baobab> tree somewhere in the Pride
Lands. He is a dear friend to Mufasa and later Simba. He performs
shamanistic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism> services for the lions
of Pride Rock. He is an enigmatic character, tending to speak about himself
in the third person, who drops in unexpectedly to lend advice; although
very wise, he also has a very quirky, playful side. He is never seen
without his stick, which is topped with
gourds<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gourd>that he uses for ritual
purposes, painting and food).
*
But Buddhists and other Eastern sages teach also to ignore teachings and
especially to not follow blindly teacher's modelling (most boldly expressed
in a paradox "when you meet Buddha, kill Buddha"); it was also clearly
stated by Bert Hellinger in a similar way.
And there is another option to a "stick" usage and there is another
impeccable force to move an immovable entity: the best way of describing it
in my opinion would be the art of Wu-Wei (doing by not-doing), or Love as
described by St.Paul in his Hymn to Love (even if the author failed to
follow it in his other teachings). Or Feminine Energy, or Yin.
An example: the Master in Martial Arts deals with his attacker's aggression
by not taking it in and by non-resisting it. If there is no resistance,
aggression as an energy goes back to where was generated.
Masculine Energy (or a Yang principle) would use a stick and would stop
physically or would stay still in a case of what is represented as an
active resistance to change.
Feminine Energy (or Yin, or Love - meant as absolutely unconditioned) would
follow, would dance, would apply Wu-Wei, would flow and penetrate without
any physical force.
They both have their applications in specific moments, and no one is bigger
than other; unfortunately there is imbalance of those two energies of
Masculine and Feminine in our human history but that would be another topic.
As I stated in my previous post, there is an universal matter of
professionalism to step out if the client isn't ready and I have no doubts
about it. And off course I agree with you Barbara that in the end of the
day, we can't know everything about what is going on - as observers of the
process between the facilitator and the client.
But being an observer I never could be a passive witness; what is going
around me, reflects in me, and it is a part of Knowing Field energy working
on me. And that what reflects - is my business, and an important phenomena.
Ignoring that, I'd be blind.
When I observed in Bert's training sessions situations of refusing to work
with someone (there were sessions open to public and not all clients were
trainees) - I've taken few lessons on following Bert (first 5 points) and
not following Bert (5 bottom points):
1. To put attention to face/body energy subtle signs - more than to words
(in a fast first few sec. presentation)
2. To ignore/stop stories covering/diffusing client's energy
3. To respect heavy fate or the client's choice to follow unconscious
loyalties
4. To stay firm as a facilitator and in tune to the Knowing Field rather
than to participants' expectations
5. To accept that I don't know and respect facilitator-client relationship
phenomena
6. To not follow Bert if I disagree but to trust my intuition
7. To reflect on what that outside situation enlights in me (especially my
fears, judgements, but also my values and my personal integrity)
8. To prioritize my compassion and intuition over my cognitive assessment
as the last instance
9. To explore how to create such including space to not exclude anyone in
an act of refusing a request from a client
10. To be aware of dangers of my personal power to others and to minimise
these dangers
I agree with you Robert when you wrote: "I like the point about the
irresistible force meeting the immovable object. It gets a bit more
complicated when the balance of forces are unequal between people of
authority and poor, confused souls."
Also, I've learnt from my clients that judgement is not something only to
be embarassed about (as I was pretty fixated in the past on chasing and
getting rid of judgements as "bad guys" - in me and in others).
The act of judgement is simply a reflection on one's internal state; if
it's taken as a reflection on internal state, is invaluable information. If
it's taken as a true reality of external world - then we have trouble.
Another positive phenomena of judgement is that it reflects also values and
one's act of protecting their values.
Following my earlier analogies - trying to be not judgemental to teaching
as a student/witness could be a choice of follow a teacher blindly; getting
rid of judgements as "it's bad to judge" would be another blindness to
internal phenomena and in some cases would be like using a stick (which
might be very appropriate to the arrogance of judgements of the Ego); being
aware of judgements could give a light to what is projected/unfinished
internally etc.
I wouldn't perceive every act of refusal to work with a client as
exclusion, but I perceive some instances of such refusal as an act of
exclusion. In such instances I need to follow my intuition and integrity.
And if I examine my judgement in a given moment as a positive - I'd keep
that view of perceiving what I witnessed as an exclusion. Along with
respecting facts of being ONLY in an observer role, and of Unknown - which
gives space to unfold something else and new when opportunity arise.
In the end - an Aezop's Fable:
*The Wind and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger. Suddenly they
saw a traveller coming down the road, and the Sun said: "I see a way to
decide our dispute. Whichever of us can cause that traveller to take off
his cloak shall be regarded as the stronger. You begin." So the Sun retired
behind a cloud, and the Wind began to blow as hard as it could upon the
traveller. But the harder he blew the more closely did the traveller wrap
his cloak round him, till at last the Wind had to give up in despair. Then
the Sun came out and shone in all his glory upon the traveller, who soon
found it too hot to walk with his cloak on. *
Kindness effects more than severity.
Hania Gorski, M.Psych.*, *Melbourne
***The world, Ive come to think, is like the surface of a frozen lake. We
walk along, we slip, we try to keep our balance and not to fall. One day,
theres a crack, and so we learn that underneath us is an unimaginable
depth. *James Joyce **
On 20 January 2013 22:30, Barbara Morgan <theknowingfield@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You make some interesting observations Hania. I agree with you that the
experience of the group can uncover all kinds of insights that individual
sessions might not. And yet, many amazing things can also happen in an
individual session. People's reasons for not wanting to attend a workshop
are also complex. I agree with you that family conscience and loyalty play
their part. Also it is hard for someone who has not been to know what the
benefits could be if they did go!
In terms of Bert Hellinger turning people away, I think this also has to be
understood at many different levels. When he was last in London, 4 or 5
years ago I watched him turn one woman away twice and on the third time he
worked with her. What happened between him and her in that time? As an
observer I have no way of knowing and yet something much have shifted. I
also saw another woman talk herself into not working with him without him
opening his mouth at all. She acknowledged privately afterwards that she
had done something to herself in that process. So I try to keep an open
mind and heart on these things. I think what happens is multi-layered and
it is hard to tell from an observer's position exactly what has gone on
between facilitator and client.
Barbara
On 19 January 2013 03:07, Hania Gorski <haniagorski@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Barbara and Allbecause
You wrote: "My experience generally is that those who come for individual
work are a different population from those who attend workshops."
I'd like to share my modest experience from last year - observing my few
long term clients in my individual counselling practice (long term
of complex trauma or transgenerational trauma or other complex andchronic
issues, not because I prefer it, in contrary I prefer what is efficientand
short).constellation,
Few of them attended one group workshop, some of them did a
some just participated (also as representatives).very
One of a common characteristic of these clients was that they all were
reserved about exposing themselves in a group setting and extremelydon't
sensitive about "what other'd think" which is very obvious if we see
dysfunctional family systems messages to family members "don't feel,
see, don't talk about it".some
And that - in general - is our common problem in applying any form of
therapy or in applying SCW, and much effort needed to build a trust in
order to lower such resistance in process, to make a space to change
happening.
What I observe in the long term process of working with these clients who
were exposed to SCW group workshop
(and they have continued individual therapy with me after) - there are
shifts in their internal and external perception which is followed bymuch
deeper processing of their issues. It'd be hard to say specifically whatit
is but it is something like a feature of a deep experience of afunctioning,
beyond-intellect insight in an universal laws of family system
and this is only possible in such depth and intensity of experience - inmy
understanding - by EXPERIENCING these Orders of Love in a group workshop.beyond
Saying that I don't underestimate SCW in individual sessions, but that
space of group and other people experiences is much richer in going
of habitual resistances.family
And in my opinion - the issues of exposure in a group SCW are not only
cultural or national; they come always at the first instance - from
system/parents allowance.would
And sadly - those who have bigger restrictions - are usually in a bigger
need of resolution of entanglements
Because of that - many people wouldn't benefit a lot from only simple
attending a workshop; the internalised and unconscious shame and fear
block their ability to tune to the Knowing Field.works),
That makes me feel sad when I've heard Bert or others sometimes stating
something like there is no help for those who have too high resistance
(that was my impression when I observed Bert rejecting working with some
people). That's an act of exclusion.
I'm simplifying. That way - someone might say - the evolution works (and
the Orders of Love state it by the way of family system conscience
eliminating those who have not enough power/determination to breakthrough
obstacles.they
But that makes me feel rebellious; not to deny obvious "conscience made"
obstacles but to not give up when some people have such obstacles that
need more work in individual process.to
I have a lot of respect to the fact of so called "heavy fate" and to the
truth that we need to step out if someone is not ready, or that we need
respect if the family unconscious loyalty would take charge and theclient
wouldn't chose Life but Death (for example).(however
In result of being exposed to experience SCW in a group setting - my
clients present shifts in their consciousness which I may describe
is not very precise) as stepping a bit out of the invisible cloud oftheir
family system entanglements; they present their insights or changes inin
functioning as less self-centered (in terms of taking things too
personally, being stuck in unmet early childhood developmental needs).
Stating this I feel that my language of description is poor but I'm aware
that these phenomena (like many phenomena of SCW) are deeper than
intellectual semantics. Still, language is necessary to communicate.
In the end - regarding your observation Barbara that there are different
people attending workshops and individual therapy - I've been observing
that there are few types of clients (in a rough division - depending of
what are their goals): some who seek self development only, some who come
from working on some present life issues, some seeking freedom from being
haunted by their past, some who don't know why they have some obstacles
their life as nothing from their experience would explain that, and somebe
people with chronic health (or mental health) issues in their individual
life or family, issues with children etc I'm sure I didn't fulfill all
possible cathegories.
I think - when we discuss issues of who attends workshops and why - it'd
also important to see what types of clients we have, and how SCW couldbe a
part of their other therapeutic processes. That could help us tounderstand
what kind of service to people we might be in.only
When I see these "invisible" phenomena of simple exposure to a group
workshop affecting my clients in a long term therapy - I see again and
again how invaluable is SCW.
From the other hand - with these clients I couldn't get results doing
SCW, as their way to open up and reach out of their restrictions made byWe
family system, is very difficult.
Thanks
Hania Gorski, M.Psych.*, *Melbourne
***The world, Ive come to think, is like the surface of a frozen lake.
walk along, we slip, we try to keep our balance and not to fall. One day,and
theres a crack, and so we learn that underneath us is an unimaginable
depth. *James Joyce **
On 19 January 2013 04:22, Barbara Morgan <theknowingfield@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Thanks Stephen. Yes, finding others to fill your workshops for you is athose
wonderful asset I find. Interesting that you sometimes draw people for
individual work from your workshops. My experience generally is that
who come for individual work are a different population from those who
attend workshops. There is a bit of overlap but not much.
BW
Barbara
On 14 January 2013 02:37, Stephen Campbell <coachuno@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
**
Dear Barbara and colleagues,
Thank you for your note. Yes, I strongly believe that the "culture"
Aitsall
attendant "languages" are most important to take in consideration in
workshopsaspects of a workshop.
From my own experience when I was doing NLP and Neuro-Semantics
while still working and living in the US was that there is a huge
difference between getting people in the door and working with them.
andphoneworkshop, even my three hour evening workshops here in Peru, are anevent.
Organizing an event which includes the publicity, the answering the
intelligently when they call with questions, the finding the locale
thanall
the logistics involved in insuring that the participant`s logistical
experience is first class is a completely different kettle of fish
modusthetheir experience in and of the workshop per se.
This distinction is of primer importance in the overall experience of
participant/client/patient. And, will make the difference in theindividual
returning for another workshop experience or not. The mindset and
so.theoperandi of the event planner and manager is diametrically opposed to
tofacilitator of the workshop.
In an effort to maximize our "take home" from the workshop we attempt
play a role in both camps. Some of us may be successful, others not
allMynature
own experience is that I am "good" at both. I am a salesperson by
so enrolling people in my workshops was never an issue. However, Ilearned
that there others out there who are far better and are set up to do
chairsthat needs to be done to get a goodly number of folks sitting in
createfor
which they have paid the agreed upon sum. So, I have stepped away
completely from this aspect of workshop organization. I arrive,
wasthe
ambiance, open up the Field and go about doing my work for which I
"Hiretrained and will be paid.
Reminds me of something a suite mate of mine at university said,
havepeople to do what you don't do well". This counsel has served me well
through out my life. My other cardinal rule is that I would rather
have70%
of something than 100% of nothing. So, I cede to those who either
peopleclient bases who can use my service or know how to better enroll
introductionsthesethan I. What I "take home" is just recompense for my work and the
"organizers" all seem to be happy with their remuneration for their
efforts. Moreover, I get a fair number of individual sessions from
on/withworkshops; because, as you all so well know, we can not work witheveryone
who attends a workshop. So, if people see the effect of the work
others they contact me for individual sessions. In all my
workand
closing remarks of a workshop I make it known that I do individual
anandfor
have name cards available for those who want them at the end of the
workshop. In a recent evening workshop I had 12 participants, average
privatethe early summer and just after the Holidays. I worked with three
individuals during the workshop and I now have four inquiries for
sessions.practice.
Perhaps this is a model you might want to consider to expand your
Fondly,
Stephen
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Barbara Morgan
theknowingfield@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
Interesting to hear your experience Stephen. Thank you. Having run
aapprenticeship for many years, which I have found very helpful and
apprenticeshipvery
good way for people to learn, I am about to set up an
whattraining here in the Uk and it is useful to hear what works and
wrote:culturesdoesn't. I am becoming increasingly aware also that different
differentneed
different things and I guess also different individuals need
whilstthings too at any given time, which is why I firmly believe that
andit
is important and very useful to have a basic structure for training
thesome things really do need covering, it is also good to respond to
foundgroup and their particular needs for learning. This is what I have
so
invaluable in working in Romania over the last few years.
Barbara.
On 2 January 2013 21:20, Stephen Campbell coachuno@xxxxxxxxx>
of
**
Dearest Colleagues,
May this year be one of great prosperity in all aspects of each
perspectiveyourwhom
lives.
I have found this thread of much interest and like Sheila, with
I
resonate, I would like to add my two centavos from the
ofever
bilingual and bicultural Facilitator here in Perú.
I was privileged to be part of the first Facilitator training
Tiiuheld
in
this country. Our training was ably managed and coordinated by
3.5Bozeman
of the Centro Hellinger de Argentina. Our training spanned over
weas ayears
of bi-monthly trainings by members of the teaching staff as well
Just.number of invited teachers such as Stephan Hausner and Anngwyn St
We
not only learned the theory of this work in a classroom setting,
andread
extensively and each module included an entire day of workshopfacilitated
by the visiting professor and open to the public at large. Theseworkshops
were amply attended and we got to live and experience the Field
toobserve
and learn from true masters. I personally travelled to Argentina
Bernreidsee
Bert himself work and teach. Additionally, I travelled to
toof
be
in
the presence of a wider array of true masters at this craft. All
becomeAnd, Iwhich contributed enormously to the Facilitator i have become.
andcontinue to evolve almost on a daily basis as I bring my othertherapeutic
skills to this systemic solution.
Early on in my training, a fellow colleague and physician friend
I,
over lunch, came to the realization that in order to really
andpoolotherscompetent at this craft we could not merely observe the work of
and
read everything we could get our hands on. We had to get in the
as aand
dog paddle if necessary. My dear friend and colleague, who works
physician in the national health service, has a private clinic
dedicatedweeklybecause
of his professional exposure attracted 40-60 attendees to our
workshops. For well over two years our Friday nights were
reminiscedto
charged alearning and serving the patients who came to our workshops. He
very modest stipend to each person who attended. We have
mouththatpractice,
our early work, way before we had been given "permission" to
wasaltering
not the most elegant but it was effective. People resolved life
issues both physical and emotional through our work. Word of
ahas
kept his clinic full as he continues. I, on the other hand, beganoffering
workshops at a Healing Center run by dear friends and addressing
itwhole
different strata of clients. In the early days it was weekly and
healingisthree
now
twice to three times per month. Like Bill mentioned, I have had
consistencypeople show up and we did meaningful work; while discouraging Imaintained
my consistency of being there every Thursday evening. This
has
paid huge dividends as now my workshops consistently have 15-30
participants. I have replicated this model in several other
keepsspeakscenters
and now do 6-8 workshops per month.The effectiveness of the work
for
itself and the word of mouth ( lip radio as it is know here)
mya
laundrypractice vibrant and my workshops well attended.
As Dan mentioned, some people don't like their soiled family
to
socio-economicbe
aired in public. This is particularly true of a certain
strata in this country. So, they choose to come to my office for
haveandprivate
session in which I use sheets of paper with the following large
inscription on each 0 ^ 0. This represents the individual\s eyes
thenose
so the client can position them looking in a given direction. In
consideredpast,
each sheet had a name of the element I, as the facilitator,
important. Now, other than the sheet which represents the client
him/herself which has their name on it, all the others merely
acovert
small
Roman numeral in the bottom right hand corner. This evolving
theThatconstellation is evolving and producing some astounding results.
inisknown
subject of another future post or article.
About six months ago I had the privilege of working with two well
psychiatrists and three psychologists each individually on issues
theytheir
lives. The results of our work in each case were so fruitful that
have
put me on their respective referral lists and until just before
mentionedshareholidays I had a waiting list of patients.
The purpose of this post is not to say, "Hey,look at me!" it is
therecurrentthatworkshops.
it is possible to create a vibrant practice and well attended
As
I look back, I see several factors which have contributed to my
status. Consistency is the primary one. Not only did I hang in
for
the workshops where attendance was minimal and compensation
equally tenuous; but, for the time I worked at the above
travelpersondealclinic,
where I occasionally received taxi fare, I also held workshops to
participants.with
macro issues relating to Peru as a country at no cost to
I
have travelled extensively throughout the country doing workshopsorganized
by others and this too has borne fruit in that I do private in
sessions as well as through Skype. And in some cases people
toattended
Lima,
where I am based, to work with me.
I don't think language per se is the tipping point to well
oversight,workshops. I have written and let others write, with my
beingdescription of what this work is all about. I speak it of as
of"psychology of the soul" and that captivates many. When I speak
havetheField
Field I relate to those times when we have had an intuition aboutsomething
and remark that we are then connected to the Field which is the
areof
all information since the beginning of time. I am sure that there
highlightmany,
perhaps including Dr. Sheldrake, but it works. This work I
isthe
about feeling not about thinking. For some this is HARD but even
bulwarks cave in once in the Field. Dan, I know that you could
training.havecreated
the success in the Massachusetts Prison System that you did and
minewritten about if language was the issue.
Word of this effective methodology has spread and colleagues of
And,throughout the country who were trained similarly are using this
methodology to help their patients resolve issues they present.
itdone
is
not all bright and sunny as we occasionally have to repair work
by
professionals who attended but did not complete the full
exposureSo,
limited knowledge and experience can damage do.
So, in conclusion, I do believe that lengthy training and
theyis ahone
must. Experience in group dynamics is also a necessary skill to
such
has been mentioned to provide a safe and loving environment wherecomplete
strangers connect with one and other at such a deep level that
Ireceiveswillingly participate by representing or being the person who
the
contributions of others. I have others organize my workshops and
wordcompensate them for their efforts. It is a win win for all. And
of
mouth is unbelievably powerful.
I trust that mis dos centavos (two cents) have value to you.
Abrazos to each of you from summery Peru
Stephen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--
Barbara Morgan
Family Constellations Trainer, Supervisor & Practitioner
Editor of
The Knowing Field
International Constellations Journal
www.theknowingfield.com
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------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--
Barbara Morgan
Family Constellations Trainer, Supervisor & Practitioner
Editor of
The Knowing Field
International Constellations Journal
www.theknowingfield.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
Barbara Morgan
Family Constellations Trainer, Supervisor & Practitioner
Editor of
The Knowing Field
International Constellations Journal
www.theknowingfield.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links