Thankyou Hania for sharing your wealth of experience in these matters. I would
just like to share another way of looking at the situation that:
That makes me feel sad when I've heard Bert or others sometimes stating
something like there is no help for those who have too high resistance
(that was my impression when I observed Bert rejecting working with some
people). That's an act of exclusion.
I have to say that my biggest Zen sticks in life have been from such acts of
exclusion by masters in their field. I think the resistant ego is an
unstoppible force that needs to meet an immovable object. Each ego is basically
deep down, asking to be conquered. Wikipedia describes this phenonemon as pure
physics. I have seen stars born this way ...............taking away the spear
to strike the shield.......Food for thought?
The Irresistible force paradox, also called the unstoppable force paradox, is
a classic paradox formulated as "What happens when an unstoppable force meets
an immovable object?" This paradox is a form of the omnipotence paradox, which
is a simple demonstration that challenges omnipotence: ("Can God create a stone
so heavy it cannot be lifted, not even by God Himself?"). The immovable object
and the irresistible force are both implicitly assumed to be indestructible, or
else the question would have a trivial resolution ("it destroys it").
Furthermore, it is assumed that they are two separate entities, since an
irresistible force is implicitly an immovable object, and vice versa. Another
common answer is: "The former is consumed by the latter, with an immeasurable
release of heat"
The apparent paradox arises because it rests on two premises—that there exist
such things as irresistible forces and immovable objects—which cannot both be
true at once. If there exists an irresistible force, it follows logically that
there cannot be any such thing as an immovable object, and vice versa.[1][2]
[edit]Origins
An example of this paradox in non-western thought can be found in the origin of
the Chinese word for paradox (Chinese: 矛盾; pinyin: máodùn; literally
"Spear-Shield"). This term originates from a story (see the Kanbun example) in
the 3rd century BC philosophical book Han Feizi.[3] In the story, a man was
trying to sell a spear and a shield. When asked how good his spear was, he said
that his spear could pierce any shield. Then, when asked how good his shield
was, he said that it could defend from all spear attacks. Then one person asked
him what would happen if he were to take his spear to strike his shield; the
seller could not answer. This led to the idiom of "zìxīang máodùn" (自相矛盾), or
"self-contradictory".[1] Another ancient and mythological example illustrating
this theme can be found in the story of the Teumessian fox, who can never be
caught, and the houndLaelaps, who never misses what it hunts. Realizing
the paradox, Zeus turns both creatures into static stars.
Kind regards
Sadhana
________________________________
From: Hania Gorski <haniagorski@xxxxxxxxx>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] A Powerful Tool
Hi Barbara and All
You wrote: "My experience generally is that those who come for individual
work are a different population from those who attend workshops."
I'd like to share my modest experience from last year - observing my few
long term clients in my individual counselling practice (long term because
of complex trauma or transgenerational trauma or other complex and chronic
issues, not because I prefer it, in contrary I prefer what is efficient and
short).
Few of them attended one group workshop, some of them did a constellation,
some just participated (also as representatives).
One of a common characteristic of these clients was that they all were very
reserved about exposing themselves in a group setting and extremely
sensitive about "what other'd think" which is very obvious if we see
dysfunctional family systems messages to family members "don't feel, don't
see, don't talk about it".
And that - in general - is our common problem in applying any form of
therapy or in applying SCW, and much effort needed to build a trust in
order to lower such resistance in process, to make a space to change
happening.
What I observe in the long term process of working with these clients who
were exposed to SCW group workshop
(and they have continued individual therapy with me after) - there are some
shifts in their internal and external perception which is followed by much
deeper processing of their issues. It'd be hard to say specifically what it
is but it is something like a feature of a deep experience of a
beyond-intellect insight in an universal laws of family system functioning,
and this is only possible in such depth and intensity of experience - in my
understanding - by EXPERIENCING these Orders of Love in a group workshop.
Saying that I don't underestimate SCW in individual sessions, but that
space of group and other people experiences is much richer in going beyond
of habitual resistances.
And in my opinion - the issues of exposure in a group SCW are not only
cultural or national; they come always at the first instance - from family
system/parents allowance.
And sadly - those who have bigger restrictions - are usually in a bigger
need of resolution of entanglements
Because of that - many people wouldn't benefit a lot from only simple
attending a workshop; the internalised and unconscious shame and fear would
block their ability to tune to the Knowing Field.
That makes me feel sad when I've heard Bert or others sometimes stating
something like there is no help for those who have too high resistance
(that was my impression when I observed Bert rejecting working with some
people). That's an act of exclusion.
I'm simplifying. That way - someone might say - the evolution works (and
the Orders of Love state it by the way of family system conscience works),
eliminating those who have not enough power/determination to break through
obstacles.
But that makes me feel rebellious; not to deny obvious "conscience made"
obstacles but to not give up when some people have such obstacles that they
need more work in individual process.
I have a lot of respect to the fact of so called "heavy fate" and to the
truth that we need to step out if someone is not ready, or that we need to
respect if the family unconscious loyalty would take charge and the client
wouldn't chose Life but Death (for example).
In result of being exposed to experience SCW in a group setting - my
clients present shifts in their consciousness which I may describe (however
is not very precise) as stepping a bit out of the invisible cloud of their
family system entanglements; they present their insights or changes in
functioning as less self-centered (in terms of taking things too
personally, being stuck in unmet early childhood developmental needs).
Stating this I feel that my language of description is poor but I'm aware
that these phenomena (like many phenomena of SCW) are deeper than
intellectual semantics. Still, language is necessary to communicate.
In the end - regarding your observation Barbara that there are different
people attending workshops and individual therapy - I've been observing
that there are few types of clients (in a rough division - depending of
what are their goals): some who seek self development only, some who come
from working on some present life issues, some seeking freedom from being
haunted by their past, some who don't know why they have some obstacles in
their life as nothing from their experience would explain that, and some
people with chronic health (or mental health) issues in their individual
life or family, issues with children etc I'm sure I didn't fulfill all
possible cathegories.
I think - when we discuss issues of who attends workshops and why - it'd be
also important to see what types of clients we have, and how SCW could be a
part of their other therapeutic processes. That could help us to understand
what kind of service to people we might be in.
When I see these "invisible" phenomena of simple exposure to a group
workshop affecting my clients in a long term therapy - I see again and
again how invaluable is SCW.
From the other hand - with these clients I couldn't get results doing only
SCW, as their way to open up and reach out of their restrictions made by
family system, is very difficult.
Thanks
Hania Gorski, M.Psych.*, *Melbourne
***The world, I’ve come to think, is like the surface of a frozen lake. We
walk along, we slip, we try to keep our balance and not to fall. One day,
there’s a crack, and so we learn that underneath us — is an unimaginable
depth. *James Joyce **
On 19 January 2013 04:22, Barbara Morgan <theknowingfield@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Stephen. Yes, finding others to fill your workshops for you is a
wonderful asset I find. Interesting that you sometimes draw people for
individual work from your workshops. My experience generally is that those
who come for individual work are a different population from those who
attend workshops. There is a bit of overlap but not much.
BW
Barbara
On 14 January 2013 02:37, Stephen Campbell <coachuno@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
**its
Dear Barbara and colleagues,
Thank you for your note. Yes, I strongly believe that the "culture" and
attendant "languages" are most important to take in consideration in allevent.
aspects of a workshop.
From my own experience when I was doing NLP and Neuro-Semantics workshops
while still working and living in the US was that there is a huge
difference between getting people in the door and working with them. A
workshop, even my three hour evening workshops here in Peru, are an
Organizing an event which includes the publicity, the answering the phoneall
intelligently when they call with questions, the finding the locale and
the logistics involved in insuring that the participant`s logisticalindividual
experience is first class is a completely different kettle of fish than
their experience in and of the workshop per se.
This distinction is of primer importance in the overall experience of the
participant/client/patient. And, will make the difference in the
returning for another workshop experience or not. The mindset and modusMy
operandi of the event planner and manager is diametrically opposed to the
facilitator of the workshop.
In an effort to maximize our "take home" from the workshop we attempt to
play a role in both camps. Some of us may be successful, others not so.
own experience is that I am "good" at both. I am a salesperson by naturelearned
so enrolling people in my workshops was never an issue. However, I
that there others out there who are far better and are set up to do allfor
that needs to be done to get a goodly number of folks sitting in chairs
which they have paid the agreed upon sum. So, I have stepped awaythe
completely from this aspect of workshop organization. I arrive, create
ambiance, open up the Field and go about doing my work for which I was70%
trained and will be paid.
Reminds me of something a suite mate of mine at university said, "Hire
people to do what you don't do well". This counsel has served me well
through out my life. My other cardinal rule is that I would rather have
of something than 100% of nothing. So, I cede to those who either haveeveryone
client bases who can use my service or know how to better enroll people
than I. What I "take home" is just recompense for my work and the
"organizers" all seem to be happy with their remuneration for their
efforts. Moreover, I get a fair number of individual sessions from these
workshops; because, as you all so well know, we can not work with
who attends a workshop. So, if people see the effect of the work on/withand
others they contact me for individual sessions. In all my introductions
closing remarks of a workshop I make it known that I do individual workand
have name cards available for those who want them at the end of thepractice.
workshop. In a recent evening workshop I had 12 participants, average for
the early summer and just after the Holidays. I worked with three
individuals during the workshop and I now have four inquiries for private
sessions.
Perhaps this is a model you might want to consider to expand your
very
Fondly,
Stephen
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Barbara Morgan
theknowingfield@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
Interesting to hear your experience Stephen. Thank you. Having run an
apprenticeship for many years, which I have found very helpful and a
foundgood way for people to learn, I am about to set up an apprenticeshipneed
training here in the Uk and it is useful to hear what works and what
doesn't. I am becoming increasingly aware also that different cultures
different things and I guess also different individuals need differentit
things too at any given time, which is why I firmly believe that whilst
is important and very useful to have a basic structure for training and
some things really do need covering, it is also good to respond to the
group and their particular needs for learning. This is what I have
soyour
invaluable in working in Romania over the last few years.
Barbara.
On 2 January 2013 21:20, Stephen Campbell coachuno@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
**
Dearest Colleagues,
May this year be one of great prosperity in all aspects of each of
Ilives.
I have found this thread of much interest and like Sheila, with whom
heldresonate, I would like to add my two centavos from the perspective of
bilingual and bicultural Facilitator here in Perú.
I was privileged to be part of the first Facilitator training ever
Just.inyears
this country. Our training was ably managed and coordinated by TiiuBozeman
of the Centro Hellinger de Argentina. Our training spanned over 3.5
of bi-monthly trainings by members of the teaching staff as well as a
number of invited teachers such as Stephan Hausner and Anngwyn St
seeWeread
not only learned the theory of this work in a classroom setting, we
extensively and each module included an entire day of workshopfacilitated
by the visiting professor and open to the public at large. Theseworkshops
were amply attended and we got to live and experience the Field andobserve
and learn from true masters. I personally travelled to Argentina to
I,beBert himself work and teach. Additionally, I travelled to Bernreid to
in
the presence of a wider array of true masters at this craft. All oftherapeutic
which contributed enormously to the Facilitator i have become. And, I
continue to evolve almost on a daily basis as I bring my other
skills to this systemic solution.
Early on in my training, a fellow colleague and physician friend and
othersover lunch, came to the realization that in order to really become
competent at this craft we could not merely observe the work of
toandand
read everything we could get our hands on. We had to get in the pool
dog paddle if necessary. My dear friend and colleague, who works as abecause
physician in the national health service, has a private clinic and
of his professional exposure attracted 40-60 attendees to our weekly
workshops. For well over two years our Friday nights were dedicated
practice,charged alearning and serving the patients who came to our workshops. He
thatvery modest stipend to each person who attended. We have reminisced
our early work, way before we had been given "permission" to
haswasaltering
not the most elegant but it was effective. People resolved life
issues both physical and emotional through our work. Word of mouth
iswholekept his clinic full as he continues. I, on the other hand, beganoffering
workshops at a Healing Center run by dear friends and addressing a
different strata of clients. In the early days it was weekly and it
consistencynow
twice to three times per month. Like Bill mentioned, I have had threemaintained
people show up and we did meaningful work; while discouraging I
my consistency of being there every Thursday evening. This
speakshas
paid huge dividends as now my workshops consistently have 15-30centers
participants. I have replicated this model in several other healing
and now do 6-8 workshops per month.The effectiveness of the work
tofor
itself and the word of mouth ( lip radio as it is know here) keeps my
practice vibrant and my workshops well attended.
As Dan mentioned, some people don't like their soiled family laundry
socio-economicbe
aired in public. This is particularly true of a certain
considerednosestrata in this country. So, they choose to come to my office for aprivate
session in which I use sheets of paper with the following large
inscription on each 0 ^ 0. This represents the individual\s eyes and
so the client can position them looking in a given direction. In thepast,
each sheet had a name of the element I, as the facilitator,
knownisimportant. Now, other than the sheet which represents the clientsmall
him/herself which has their name on it, all the others merely have a
Roman numeral in the bottom right hand corner. This evolving covert
constellation is evolving and producing some astounding results. That
subject of another future post or article.
About six months ago I had the privilege of working with two well
theypsychiatrists and three psychologists each individually on issues intheir
lives. The results of our work in each case were so fruitful that
currenthaveworkshops.
put me on their respective referral lists and until just before thethat
holidays I had a waiting list of patients.
The purpose of this post is not to say, "Hey,look at me!" it is share
it is possible to create a vibrant practice and well attended
As
I look back, I see several factors which have contributed to my
dealforstatus. Consistency is the primary one. Not only did I hang in there
the workshops where attendance was minimal and compensationclinic,
equally tenuous; but, for the time I worked at the above mentioned
where I occasionally received taxi fare, I also held workshops to
participants.with
macro issues relating to Peru as a country at no cost to
Ithe
have travelled extensively throughout the country doing workshopsorganized
by others and this too has borne fruit in that I do private in personLima,
sessions as well as through Skype. And in some cases people travel to
where I am based, to work with me.
I don't think language per se is the tipping point to well attended
workshops. I have written and let others write, with my oversight,
description of what this work is all about. I speak it of as being
"psychology of the soul" and that captivates many. When I speak of
isofField I relate to those times when we have had an intuition aboutsomething
and remark that we are then connected to the Field which is the Field
all information since the beginning of time. I am sure that there aremany,
perhaps including Dr. Sheldrake, but it works. This work I highlight
itabout feeling not about thinking. For some this is HARD but even thecreated
bulwarks cave in once in the Field. Dan, I know that you could have
the success in the Massachusetts Prison System that you did and have
written about if language was the issue.
Word of this effective methodology has spread and colleagues of mine
throughout the country who were trained similarly are using this
methodology to help their patients resolve issues they present. And,
byis
not all bright and sunny as we occasionally have to repair work done
So,professionals who attended but did not complete the full training.
is alimited knowledge and experience can damage do.
So, in conclusion, I do believe that lengthy training and exposure
receivessuchmust. Experience in group dynamics is also a necessary skill to hone
has been mentioned to provide a safe and loving environment wherecomplete
strangers connect with one and other at such a deep level that they
willingly participate by representing or being the person who
ofthe
contributions of others. I have others organize my workshops and I
compensate them for their efforts. It is a win win for all. And word
mouth is unbelievably powerful.
I trust that mis dos centavos (two cents) have value to you.
Abrazos to each of you from summery Peru
Stephen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--
Barbara Morgan
Family Constellations Trainer, Supervisor & Practitioner
Editor of
The Knowing Field
International Constellations Journal
www.theknowingfield.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--
Barbara Morgan
Family Constellations Trainer, Supervisor & Practitioner
Editor of
The Knowing Field
International Constellations Journal
www.theknowingfield.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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