I'm reminded of a facilitator with whom I've studied who is very interactive
when it comes to who's hands are where. She uses this as a teaching moment
to introduce the orders of love without specifically calling it by name. She
quietly explains who's hands are on top in the "natural order of things" and
in that quietly spoken process that I've seen her use over and over, the
child is able to acknowledge that the parent comes before his/her and that
he/she in turns comes before any of her children--dead or alive. There is
much healing in this small tool, and it really reminds me of a bow--in very
many ways. She has a phrase she uses almost consistently, which honors the
proper relationship between and individual and mother, or father. Sometimes,
it's the first time that individual ever thought of allowing a parent
ANYTHING! Small, but powerful. I don't know yet if she comes back with her
"regulars" and includes the bow at a later time.
But, you are absolutely correct to discern the difference between bowing in
Germany and China, as opposed to asking a native born US resident to bow
down in front of a parent?
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Reddy
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:04 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Bowing Note--Gesture Doesn't Equal or
Create Feeling
Julio, Dan, and All,
First, I hope was clear that my post (on gesture not necessarily
equalling or creating feeling) was NOT about denying or speaking
against any part of the rich tapestry of meanings associated in these
discussions with bowing. To my mind, as I was hoping to convey, they
are all possible and all very valuable. It's wonderful to read and
absorb them. Thanks again to all who are contributing.
Second, the posts since then have me wondering about another aspect of
meaning in relation to this gesture. Are there not likely to be
cultural differences in what people are comfortable expressing with
bows? Ones that affect clients' inner responses, and thus also might
be taken into account in our use of bows in different national contexts?
Perhaps a little more pressure on the rep or client to complete a bow
is appropriate in some countries (Germany? China?) because the
national conscience "contains" the movement more. Is it fair to say
that in Germany, "bowing" to order and authority is more of an
accepted value, while in China, "bowing" to ancestors is more a part?
(Please notice these are phrased as questions.)
My sense, in working mostly with US Americans, is that we don't use
bows normally except when being applauded after performing, and that
we are disconnected from "respect for our ancestors" as an important
principle, and even somewhat from "respect for authority." . So when
a client (or the rep) does "become small" relative to a parent, I
focus that movement more often with the healing sentence, with
positioning the parent behind the child with hands on shoulders, or
with what is often a spontaneous and tearful hug. In the hug, I'm
watching posture and whose arms are on top, and suggesting a
repositioning if the child's arms are above.
The few bows I have used are most often gestures of acknowledgement
when a resolution is not possible at present. I usually say something
like, "Can you bow to each other, one at at time, to signify that you
accept each other as part of the family, but are not yet ready to move
closer?" So this is, for me, a precisely "strategic movement"--but I
don't mean a thoughtless are perfunctory one. I've seen these bows
lead to reconciliations that happen in constellations that come months
later. The bow "opened the door," so to speak, for softening to occur.
Actually, thinking about it, you can probably see my martial arts
background in this usage.
Anyway, if an interaction such as Dan describes happened in
Hellinger's workshop in America, can it be related to differences in
this cultural aspect?
Best,
Michael
Michael Reddy, PhD, CPC, ELI-MP
michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.reddyworks.com
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On Aug 20, 2011, at 5:16 PM, Julio Príncipe wrote:
Thanks Michael, I agree with you
Your post brings to me a personal insight (and a question): how many
times
"bowing" becomes in a "strategical-chess-movement" of my role as
facilitator?
(I don´t know if it's clear, English it's not my first language;
sorry for
that).
best regards,
Julio
2011/8/20 Michael Reddy <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hello Everyone,those
Thanks for all the enrichment of our perspective on bowing. It's
really valuable.
I guess I feel moved to just put in a small footnote here. Let's
please not forget that an external word, or gesture is never
equivalent to any particular thought or set of feelings. Words and
gestures remain ambiguous. To say that a bow CAN mean these and
things is correct, and to say that, for ourselves and our clients,we
WANT it to mean certain things is really valuable. It is even truerigid
that a full-body gesture like the bow TENDS to move someone towards
certain states of feeling that are sort of intrinsic to the posture.
But still the external expression is not equivalent to what is going
on inside.
For example, I have seen forced bows that were so reluctant and
that, obviously, something else was going on. I'm not talking herethe
about my own experience of constellations, so much as experiences
earlier in martial arts (Kodokan Judo). I remember one match during
my beginner white belt days in which my opponent's required bow at
beginning was so obviously filled with animosity and even rage, thatmore
my bow was filled with fear. Respect was never able to emerge. A
seasoned competitor would have bowed very differently--knowing thatcompassion
the man's rage would make it very easy to throw him. That more
seasoned bow might contain delight in certain victory (irony in the
gesture), at a certain stage. or at a later stage, genuine
and the "namaste" feeling. "I'll throw you. May you learn and growIf
from it."
This is part of a general tendency we have, supported by pervasive
underlying metaphors in many languages, to act and speak as if the
word or gesture were a package that delivered another person's
internal thought or feeling. It's not. Words have no "insides." We
don't put thoughts or feelings "into" words. Still our languages
won't let us talk easily any other way. You may notice I said above
that my bow "was filled with fear." So there it is in plain sight. I
have to use the expressions, even though I'm aware of the problem.
this is of interest, see the academic work I did on this severalyour most
decades ago (Wikepedia, "Conduit Metaphor").
Thanks to all for this list.
Michael
Michael Reddy, PhD, CPC, ELI-MP
michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.reddyworks.com
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DIAL IN TO OUR FREE, WEEKLY, QUESTION & ANSWER
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On Aug 19, 2011, at 3:39 PM, Stephan Knierim wrote:
Hi everyone,
As I have also learned, bowing/honoring involves you showing
judgement andvulnerable spot in your body to the other - your neck.
So, as you bow, you become humble and vulnerable and all
feelings of arrogance start to heal.
Best regards,
Stephan Knierim
stephankrx@xxxxxxxxx
CENTRO DE CONSTELACIONES FAMILIARES SOWELU
Family Constellator
Sistemic Organizational Configurator
México D.F.
MEXICO
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