From: "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@xxxxxxx>
Reply-To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: bow to perpretrators
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:14:03 -0000
> Although it is rare but some facilitators would ask clients
> (decendents of Perpretrators or victims ) to bow to perpretrators
e.g. Murderers.
>
> However, Bert Hellinger in the past used to let the perpretrators
> just left the system physically. In some books, Bert mentioned
that no one within in a family can be excluded except perpetrators.
>
> Anyone can comment on this issue?
>
> Simon HO
_____________________
Simon,
Thank you for asking these questions, as I have similar confusion
about the place of perpetrators in the system and how are they to be
excluded yet not excluded.
I have a further confusion about the perpetrators. What is the
difference between someone who murders a victim in the same family
and someone who murders a stranger from another family system?
I understand that a murderer from another family system becomes part
of the victim's family system. Does the murderer need to be
acknowledged and honored and then excluded by the victim's family
memebrs? What happens to the murderer's family system? How do they
not exclude the person who has clearly excluded himself by the act of
murder?
ThomasDear Thomas and Simon,
that is an interesting question. In workshops with Bert Hellinger I have seen that he excludes murderer by letting them leave the room. That is they lose the right to belong to the family.
From the book: "Love's own truths"( Zeig,Tucker & Theisen Phoenix 2001) pg.72/73: "People who have forfeited their right to belong must leave". "Hellinger: It is often only possible to decide this in a concrete situation. Belonging and the right to belong are always forfeited when someone in the family kills or theatens to kill another member of the family, or when the person kills someone else. When this happens, the person must leave or be excluded; otherwise an innocent person will leave or be excluded instead. Some time ago, there was an Irish participant in a workshop whose grandfather had been a freedom fighter and had shot his brother. But far from being excluded, he was regarded as a hero. One of his grandsons went to live far away, like someone who no longer belonged, and this grandson also had a serious quarrel with his brother. When his family constellation was set up, we sent the grandfather out of the room, and immediately there was peace between the brothers and all the other members of the system...."
I hope this is of any help. Have colourful autum days
URSULA
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