Dear Anne -
Very good question! If you read through the CT archives (which you can
access through the Yahoo group page), you will find some robust exchanges on
this topic from the time of the Hellinger's first summer camp training in
Pichl, Austria.
You ask whether others are using Bert Hellinger's "new way of working" or
the more traditional Constellations, and if so, why.
To my understanding there are 4 broad categories of Constellation
practitioners these days:
1. Those trained by Hellinger and others in the classic Family
Constellation method who have since disconnected from Bert and Sophie
Hellinger. This represents the great majority of German Constellation
professionals. Both the German and International Systemic Constellation
associations have issued statements that disassociate their membership from
the Hellingers and their new way of working. These people are mainly
professional clinicians in a broad range of fields.
2. Those trained by Hellinger and others in the classic Family
Constellation method who have migrated to Hellinger Sciencia or straddle
between the two.
3. Those trained in variations and forms of Constellations by those
whose work has evolved beyond Hellinger. Daan van Kampenhout's Systemic
Rituals are an example.
4. Those whose entry into the world of Constellations is through
Hellinger Sciencia.
Having made up these categories, I could not say where another practitioner
fits, or whether they would accept these distinctions. At the outset,
Hellinger eschewed creating an institute or governing association to
establish a standard curriculum or certification process. Thus, it is up to
each individual to declare whether they work in the classic form, the new
way, some other way, or some amalgam of old, new, and different.
Every time I have seen Bert Hellinger in action, he has inspired me and
disturbed me. Nearly everyone has a story of something he did or said that
was uplifting and fulfilling side-by-side with a companion story of
something that seemed horribly inappropriate and deeply disturbing. On page
10 of the book Messengers of Healing, there is a depiction of an interaction
Hellinger had with a client at a NYC workshop in 2004. It says,
"As a woman sits at his side, she hears, 'Poor lost child.' 'What do you
mean?' she wants to know. 'I see the face of a four year-old child in your
face. What happened in your life?' She thinks for a moment, 'I can't
remember.' 'Of course, you can't...See her anger..There's much more.
There's a murder.'"
I happened to meet this woman several years later. She told me that the
experience was not fruitful for her. It was illuminating, yes, but left her
deeply disturbed and incomplete.
On many levels, I cannot and do not aspire to interact with clients this
way. It is important for me to hold as part of my intention that the client
finds her Constellation experience a positive one, that day, the next week,
and years later. I cannot always achieve this in actuality, but it serves
to guide me as the Constellation unfolds. I agree with your reflection that
we cannot operate completely in the transcendent sphere without risking
losing something of the human.
For me, the classic form allows me to reach concrete resolutions of the
particular issue presented by the client. I also frequently use Francesca
Mason Boring's Constellations as ceremony form. It provides an extra
measure of safety and support from ancestors and invites everyone in the
circle to become active as healers.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of anne becker
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:19 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Safe in Deep Waters
Dear Dan and all,
I am very interested in the questions raised in this thread. You touched on
some of my reflections after attending the training with Bert Hellinger in
Louisville in November.
I joined Constellation Talk right after that workshop. Having trained in
2006, I am still a relatively new facilitator. I am hungry to understand
more, to learn from others who have been immersed in this work, and so I
have followed all the conversations in Constellation Talk intently. But
I have been quite shy about throwing out my questions, which I fear might be
controversial, to a group of strangers. I kept hoping one of the
threads would address them directly, but this has not happened. So I guess I
am just going to have to become an active participant in the dialogue!
I did not find Hellinger's new way of working with Spirit-Mind, as presented
in Louisville, as engaging as the more structured Constellation work I was
trained in. I am wondering how many constellators are actually using this
type of work, and how many are not, and for what reasons. I have not
experienced other facililators, at the Asheville conference or elsewhere,
moving in this direction. Yet many seemed to find the Louisville
training quite powerful. Personally, while over the course of the week I
found his newer way of working led me into a more grounded, meditative
state, it also left me quite unsettled on several levels.
I understand that in this model, where the facililator barely intervenes,
the movements unfold very slowly. While in Louisville I was willing to
settle into this slower pace, because I am no stranger to "waiting for the
Spirit", it was not always clear what was unfolding. For instance, one day
Bert told us, "I am going to do a demonstration." He did not say what it
was a demonstration of. I told myself to be patient, and surely it would
become obvious by the end. When it was over, after close to two hours, and
I was still confused, I thought, "Well, now he will explain it," but he did
not. I discussed it with a few other people, and no one really seemed to
know for sure what it was that had been demonstrated. This would still have
been okay; the left brain does not necessarily have to be satisfied, but
even my right brain, with its great tolerance for ambiguity, found itself
feeling somehow cheated.
Is it possible that this Spirit-Mind work, with its lack of a clear intake,
the blindness of the representation, the lack of sentences, and the very
limited interventions by the facilitator, is so amorphous as to become
inaccessible except in quite rarified circles?
The whole question of discernment is so critical in working with various
spiritual practices. How do we know something is of the Spirit? The
traditional answer is by its fruits. In Constellation work, as in prayer,
the fruits are neither obvious nor necessarily immediate, but in my
experience there is often a sense of heightened energy, a tangible sense of
awe within the energy field of the circle. But if the experience of a
movement of the Spirit-Mind is as subjective and variable as I experienced
often in the Louisville workshop - some in the circle understanding one
thing, some another, some extraordinarily moved, others left wondering,
scratching their heads about what has just transpired, what are the criteria
for discernment?
I have trouble imagining using this approach in my workshops because I am
concerned about its erudite quality (e.g. only comprehensible to the
initiated). Nor can I use an approach that does not speak to me personally.
This does not mean that I am not deeply cognizant of, and empassioned by,
the workings of Spirit-Mind. But perhaps, as I believe Dan might have been
saying in this last thread, I recognize that we cannot operate completely in
the transcendent sphere without risking losing something of the human, and
human beings need at least some tiny modicum of the concrete, of story, to
create a context for spirtual transformation.
I did find at the workshop a minority of participants who were similarly
troubled by this new approach. It would have been wonderful to have been
able to dialogue, but there was no opportunity. So again, I would like to
know now whether others are using this "new way of working," as Bert
Hellinger calls it, or whether you are still leading more traditional
Constellations, and if so, why. I would love an honest dialogue about this.
Thank you so much.
Anne
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Dan Booth Cohen <danbcohen@rcn.
<mailto:danbcohen%40rcn.com> com> wrote:
Sadhana -lution.com/images/ocean.jpg.
Here again is the photo taken by my wife:
http://www.hiddenso ;<http://www.hiddensolution.com/images/ocean.jpg.>
ocean
It is me and my younger daughter Rosie dipping our toes in water. The
is an apt metaphor for the spirit-mind. It is vast and moves of its ownyahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
accord, carrying life, creation and destruction with it. The consciousness
of the ocean cares nothing for the fate of any particular organism.
Innumerable forms come into birth and disintegrate in death with each
passing of the Sun. To the ocean, there is no good or bad, right or wrong.
It is wonderful to come into contact with the consciousness of the ocean
spirit-mind. Still, to my wife on the beach, my daughter and I being swept
out to sea is bad and wrong; returning our toes to the sand is good and
right. Holding her hand, I dare not lose myself in the surf. That would be
bad. How can I be a husband and father without good and bad, right and
wrong?
Some go deeper. Some stay safer. Stephan Jay Gould explained that where
scientific knowledge ends, "Each of us has to have a personal metaphysics.
There are questions that are formally unanswerable on which nonetheless
every individual must take a position in order to integrate various pieces
of his life." These are personal, subjective choices. What is right for
you is right for you.
The common thread that unites the members of ConstelationTalk is we look
from a space of no thought for what has been separated. Yes, wholeness
happens. Yes, there is the healing.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ ;<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of Kay Needhamyahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:31 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@ <mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] 2 questions about the teachings ofor
Hellinger
Hi Dan,
Many thanks for your insights. Here are some further thoughts on healing.
Healing by definition is the process of recovery, repair and restoration
"a return to wholeness."such
For me the question is not what is there to heal? My experience of using
this question -and I used it for a very long time -is this. When I ask
a question I have discovered that it is bound. It is bound to a plan, aassess
beginning,an end, an aim and a destination which would be according to me,
my mind. Because this question came first I consequently compare and
everything that question comes into contact with. In this I am too busy toway
see, hear, feel, sense etc.
What works for me is "looking" from a space of no thought, for what has
been seperated. Embracing that, "wholeness" happens. There is the healing.
Unlike you Dan my toe is not enough in this greater spirit-mind dimension.
I aspire to set up residence not only in doing a constellation but as a
of life. The more I dare, the deeper I go. As I learn to trust and feel<mailto:danbcohen%40rcn.com<danbcohen%2540rcn.com>>
safe in these waters, I find myself shouting from the waters edge "come on
in the water's fine!"
Lots of love to you Dan Sadhana
________________________________
From: Dan Booth Cohen <danbcohen@rcn.
com><mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroup
To: ConstellationTalk@
Myyahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:11:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] 2 questions about the teachings of
Hellinger
Dear Mariann -
Welcome to ConstellationTalk! One of the special characteristics of our
virtual community is we encourage and tolerate a great range of diversity.
Members come from every continent, speak different mother tongues, work in
a
variety of professions, have varying degrees of experience with the
Constellation process, and embrace differing personal mythologies.
Your question opens a topic that has been sitting with me for some time.
view is that Bert Hellinger's ideas are easily misinterpreted. Or perhaps,our
they are being correctly interpreted and I disagree.
He says there is no good and bad, no right and wrong in the dimension of
the
spirit-mind. This is quite different from saying there is no good and bad,
no right and wrong. The distinction is that we do not wake-up in the
morning, commute to work, shop for groceries, call our Mums, argue with
siblings, become annoyed with our partners, brush our teeth, and get tobed
in the dimension of the spirit-mind. Except for spiritual masters (andeven
then), we live our days in the ordinary slip-slide of good and bad, rightthem
and wrong.
When people come to me asking for a Constellation, my aim is not plant
in transcendent harmony with the spirit-mind. If they can catch a glimpseconcrete
of it from the corner of their eye, I have done my job. They bring
issues and concerns. The Constellation helps them see the possibility of aput
healing movement that can unfold in the ordinary dimension of day-to-day
life and relationship. Good and bad, right and wrong are abundant in this
dimension.
What is there to heal? That is always my first question. That is my focal
point when the Constellation begins. It is the destination where the
Constellation is aimed. It is how I assess the quality of my interaction.
If I dare to step into the greater spirit-mind dimension, it is only to
my toe in for a few moments, not to set up residence.myself,
Others members of ConstellationTalk are on different spiritual paths and
operate from different personal mythologies. I am only speaking for
not attempting to cover Bert's words with a blanket.is
Good question!
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mariann
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:16 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] 2 questions about the teachings of Hellinger
Hello,
I am a new member on this discussion group, and as such, my questions may
not fit with your topics of discussion. The only way to find out if that
the case is by sending you my questions I pondered during the 2008November
workshop of Bert Hellinger in Kentucky.right
Bert opened his workshop by saying that "there is no good and bad, no
and wrong" as all events have been thought out by the "intelligent mover",what
the "Spirit-Mind" , and all events serve a larger picture that we cannot
comprehend. If that is the case, if there is no right and wrong, then,
is there to heal?he
Perhaps Bert answered this question on the last day of the workshop when
talked about images, and how images create humans' reality, which are notOK
the same "reality" as the spirit-mind dimension. So maybe we need to heal
these broken images that make up our reality until we realize that it is
to leave these images behind and we dare to step into the greaterwon't
spirit-mind dimension where these hurts are no longer relevant.... What do
you think?
The second question I have is how one should conduct one's life so we
pass on to the next generations our burdens that will entangle thosefuture
lives? Should this be a goal? Or am I just trying to influence something
that is beyond my control?
Please be kind to me if my questions are not within your topics.
Regards,
Mariann
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________ NOD32 3925 (20090310) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
part000.txt - is OK
part001.htm - is OK
http://www.eset. ;<http://www.eset.com> com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
