Dear Friends,
“No matter what we may believe, we are in service to our clients and
the healing of their souls.” ~Kenn
Feeling the pull to deviate from the above statement, might be the
time to start looking at ourselves. Otherwise our fears, judgements,
preferences and desires may preclude us from being effective.
For a facilitator the issue is not so much what the client has done,
but what the facilitator can do on the path of healing. Tall order, I
know.
“As for chapter-and-verse, all I can say is I believe it was on one of
the MANY hours of videos of Hellinger working. But you can tell your
client that Hellinger most emphatically made the point that killing
during war was NOT murder, and didn't carry the same inner
consequences.” ~Anne
Justification, praise, acceptance and support in the present may not
be believed at a deeper level of consciousness, at the point of the
original trauma.
Maybe the role of benevolent support is to allow the trauma of pain,
guilt, shame to bubble up into consciousness so that the present can
begin to separate from the past, of its own accord. Trauma is embedded
below the cognitive level, rational reassurance may prove to be close
to powerless beyond being a first step.
Yet when resources are limited the most a therapist might be able to
provide is an authoritative statement of reassurance.
By the way, there is a school of thought that says; no forgiveness is
ever possible for no crime has ever been committed – from a certain
point of view. This perspective may well be inaccessible for most of
us.
Kind regards to all,
Robert
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Chris Millar <menssana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Victor,
your point is well made and pertinent.
I do not know what he did in the war to feel bad about; he does not yet talk
about and I do not push him to do so. In his own good time.
I am speaking to him in generalities therefore; and indicating to him that I
am willing to listen.
In any case I am well aware that I would not be empowered to forgive him, or
anybody for that matter.
Thanks for pointing out the importance of taking responsibility with dignity.
Chris
Dr Chris Millar
216 Humffray Street North
Ballarat 3350
Victoria
AUSTRALIA
menssana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 26/08/2011, at 1:59 PM, VICTOR VELASCO wrote:
Hi Chris Milliar:
I had read your question and the answers to it, but I thooink the most
important thing about it is : Do you think your client can support the
weight of his actions?
Probably my English is very bad and then, I can´t unserstand very well your
message, but I have the feeling you are worried about exculpate him, more
than help him to take responsability with dignity at the same time he
delivers their responsability to the war lords which began these war.
I guess if you are clear about your intentions, you could be a better
support.
Thank you
Victor velasco
Mexico
De: VICTOR VELASCO <diplomadoconstelaciones@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Para: "ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
CC: "alexandra.caymmi@xxxxxxxxx" <alexandra.caymmi@xxxxxxxxx>
Enviado: Jueves, 25 de agosto, 2011 22:35:05
Asunto: Re: [ConstellationTalk] re: Culpability of Soldiers
De: Chris Millar <menssana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Para: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Enviado: Miércoles, 24 de agosto, 2011 20:39:30
Asunto: Re: [ConstellationTalk] re: Culpability of Soldiers
Anne,
thank you, yes, that was exactly what I had in mind with my enquiry. Killing
in war is not murder. I have tried to convey this to the patient in
question, that as a conscript (trained as a hairdresser/barber in civilian
life) any culpability is carried by the nation that has required him to do
its bidding. I was hoping for a dissertation from Hellinger that said it
more coherently. In any case, I could feel a palpable sense of relief in his
energy field, demeanour, as my message sunk in. I think it hit home. I
wanted to follow through with a more authoritative source (Hellinger).
Chris
Dr Chris Millar
216 Humffray Street North
Ballarat 3350
Victoria
AUSTRALIA
menssana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 25/08/2011, at 5:29 AM, Anne Beversdorf wrote:
The questions of soldiers' trauma is not exactly the same thing as Chris'
actual question. I too recall Bert saying that killing someone in battle
does not carry the same systemic issues as any other kind of killing. I
can't quote chapter and verse, but I clearly remember him saying it. He
does NOT say war isn't traumatic. In constellations, some of the deepest
traumas, which became systemic, were the loss of comrades--not simply the
survivor's guilt form, but the loss of persons with whom one was deeply
emotionally bonded.
So in discussion of a soldier's trauma, yes, there are many. The point I
think (?) Chris was addressing was the issue of "murder", and does a
soldier who kills in battle set up a systemic trauma of the type usual in
other kinds of murder. Hellinger clearly says no.
Interestingly, a recent study indicates that even in battles, most
soldiers shoot in the air--only a small percentage shoot to kill. The
stats make it sound like gunfights in movies, where a jillion shots are
fired and miss.... The amount of ammunition used, the close quarters, etc,
don't add up, and the conclusion was most are just shooting wildly in the
general direction of "above their heads". That kind of war is pretty much
a thing of the past tho. Kind of a non-sequitur, but interesting anyway.
Anne Beversdorf
Counselling Astrologer
Western and Vedic
www.stariel.com
anne@xxxxxxxxxxx
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