Update on our findings about testing on different venues:
1. Nextdoor: I've got 3 unsolicited emails.
2. Groups.io: no ads, $20/m, once we exceed 20gb it will be $200/m.
3. Google Groups: is not Google's forte, it's possible that some other
companies who solely dedicated to this app may overshadow them and who
knows if Google will kiss this app goodby. Besides they are a 900 pounds
Gorilla who knows if they will start pushing ads or start charging.
4. Facebook and Facebook group: We've got to have our present. We can use
it as a landing page, so is Google group to direct traffic to our main
venue.
5. Freelists: Completely free, no limit on bandwidth so far, no limit on
number of users since 2020, and most importantly no email ads.
Does not have bells and whistles like groups.io bit it's sufficient for our
use right now.
It just happens that both Daniel and I are in San Francisco (or nothing
happens by accident?) We're here volunteering our time to serve.
Please tell what you like for us to do next.
Tommy Tran
Love is the ultimate law of life.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 6:17 PM Tommy Waikiki <tommyvacation@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I love the idea about having archive on Barbara's server because the
golden rule for digital back up is
"321"
1. On current production platform.
2. On different site (Barbara's)
3. On a physical off-site media (which can be updated on a regular
schedule)
Ideally to serve the group better, the whole database should be
contiguous, and integral from the beginning to current time so we can
search with keywords.
And the good news is Daniel had already checked and verified that other
groups on Freelists definitely show up on Google search.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 6:02 PM Tommy Waikiki <tommyvacation@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I must say that I am nuts about Albrecht's question.
It's an example about "being complete", in a way that no answer needed.
it's an intelligent question where he kind of knew what the answer will be
and also the question is on behalf of everyone who wants to stay on the
list. It's complete because no follow up question is needed.
Another term that I do not know if it's the first time being used or not,
but it's the first for me: "Constellation Talkers"
Not facilitators, trainers, or else.
With no connotation, or implication needed.
It is exactly what is.
We are constellation talkers, regardless of what level we're at.
In another words, I may say, we are nuts about constellation, aren't we?
That's why I am on this list for the last 12 years. We are all in this
family.
Warm Regards,
Tommy Tran
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 3:54 PM Daniel Gackle danielgackle@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Regarding everyone's requests to stay on the list: if all goes well,
this will happen seamlessly, with zero action required from you. The most
you might notice is that the emails are formatted a little differently one
day and the name Yahoo Groups no longer appears—and that will be that. (If
Plan A fails and we're unable to pull that off, there will still be time
left to confirm who wants to stay on the list.)
I asked FreeLists about this and they replied: "Yahoo admin has a csv
export for the subscriber list, we can import that behind the scenes." If
we provide them with this csv export file, they will do the rest. Chris,
would you be willing to check whether you can export that file? My
understanding is that if you are logged in to Yahoo Groups as admin, then
from the Management page you can go to a Manage Members page, then in the
Actions menu select Export a CSV file.
I propose that we move forward with FreeLists, because (1) they have
been responsive and helpful, while I still haven't heard back from
Groups.io; (2) they are a nonprofit who seem adamantly opposed to ads and
spam; (3) they are free, and coordinating contributions for a paid service
would be a headache; (4) Groups.io is a for-profit startup, which would
make the ConstellationTalk group subject to any future changes in their
business plans, plus could impede any future migration if that became
necessary.
Chris, is this agreeable? Regarding your question about "advertising or
other nasty hidden gremlins", I agree with Tommy: my sense is that these
are true believers in the original web, the type who are passionately
opposed to ads and gremlins. So are most of their users, so if they ever
did pull any tricks, they'd probably lose their clientele. Since they've
been doing things the same way for over 20 years, that is hopefully not too
likely..
Daniel
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 1:38 PM 'Mahr' a.u.b.mahr@xxxxxxxxxxx
<a..u.b.mahr@xxxxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk] <
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Chris, Barbara, Tom and all Constellation Talkers,
I am interested to remain on the address list of any continuing
organization following Chris’ original Constellation Talk.
Do I have to do anything, in addition to declaring it here, that I have
to do?
If I do not receive an answer to my question I will interpret that as
the answer “no, nothing”.
Be all very well,
Albrecht
a.u.b.mahr@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Von:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Gesendet:* Sonntag, 25. Oktober 2020 07:04
*An:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Betreff:* Re: [ConstellationTalk] yahoo groups shutdown December 15:
Adios Amigos
Great to hear some are picking up the baton. Chris do you still want me
to go ahead with looking at the possibility of archiving previous email
exchanges on TKF website? Is that a separate issue?
Warmly
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone
On 25 Oct 2020, at 02:22, Tommy Waikiki tommyvacation@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Chris,
Freelists is completely free, on Linux, Apache server, it's been around
for 20 years, they say there will be no adds, ever. No limit on number of
users, or bandwidth.
I had already registered ConstellationTalk on freelists a few hours
after your first post not realizing now
that you are looking for more candidates to be the moderator.
Therefore, I would like to volunteer this venue on freelists for your
choosing either for Daniel lr to whoever else of your choosing.
I also have reserved the same name on the following:
Google Groups
Groups.io
Facebook Groups
Please feel free to use them and if you would consider my request...
Please stay
Warm Regards,
Tommy Tran
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 6:27 PM Chris Walsh chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
That looks good Daniel
Has anyone here had experience with free lists and does anyone know
whether they bombard people with advertising or have any other nasty hidden
gremlins?
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425
www.mindfulness.org.au <https://www.mindfulness..org.au/>
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 11:58 AM Daniel Gackle danielgackle@xxxxxxxxx
<danielgackle@xxxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk] <
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I heard back from the FreeLists people. Not only can they import the
archives, they already have software prepared to migrate Yahoo Groups into
their system (
https://www.freelists.org/wiki/doku.php?id=migrating_from_other_services).
They said that if we run their script to download the content from Yahoo,
they will do the rest.
They will also take care of migrating the existing subscribers, which
would mean an easy transition for most of the group.
Not only that, but they only took a few minutes to answer my email, and
did so personally.. That is an unusually good sign.
I will try my hand at running their script to see if it actually does
download the ConstellationTalk archives from Yahoo. I'll then report back
to the group. This may take me a few days.
Daniel
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 4:40 PM Daniel Gackle <danielgackle@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Greetings all,
ConstellationTalk and its archive are one of the treasures of the work
in the English-speaking world. I hope that it can continue, along with its
rich archive.
I haven't posted to CT before. I'm a constellation facilitator and a
loyal reader and, like all of you here, I love constellation work. In my
day job, I work in the tech industry and operate an internet forum with
about 5 million users.
I agree with Mishra and others that CT will do much better to continue
as an email list. Many members, including some of our esteemed elders, do
not have accounts on Facebook, Nextdoor, or other platforms. We will lose
them if we try to make such a switch.. There are many other problems with
these platforms too, but perhaps that's for another discussion.
For email lists, Google Groups and Groups.io are options. Another one
that looks excellent and has a fine community spirit is
https://www.freelists..org/ ;<https://www.freelists.org/>. The question
is whether any of these providers could also integrate the previous history
of ConstellationTalk (all 18 years' worth of emails!). I've emailed both
Groups.io and FreeLists to ask them this. (Google is too big to ask.)
Chris, you mentioned "*migration to groups.io <http://groups.io>
appears to be a very tedious process. If someone else is willing and able
to shepherd that process that would be good but I understand there is a
queue and it would have to start soon*." Did you hear this from
Groups.io? and could you say what you understand the migration process to
be?
I will be happy to pay someone who wants to do the "shepherding", if we
can find a way to do it. We may also have the option to first 'reboot' CT
on one of these other email list providers, and then deal with the
migration later, as long as a download of the archive exists.
Thank you Chris for your magnificent work in this community. Thank you
Barbara M. for offering The Knowing Field as a home—and what a wonderful
one—for this valuable material..
Daniel Gackle
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 3:50 PM Chris Walsh chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Useful and practical points about the various platforms Mishra
I can add that migration to groups io appears to be a very tedious
process. If somone else is willing ang able to shepherd that process that
would be good but I understand there is a queue and it would have to start
soon.
That aside it sounds like google groups might be the best option
Cheers
Chris Walsh
On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 1:20 am, S Mishra Suloway mishra@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello All
My thanks as well to Chris, and all of you whose sharings and attention
have made the list so valuable since I joined in 2005.
Looking to the future:
I do hope C-Talk doesn’t migrate to Nextdoor.
I’ve used Nextdoor for years to stay in touch with my physical
neighborhood, which is what the platform is designed for; one chooses which
tiny geographical areas one wishes to broadcast to and receive from.
Nextdoor is full of ads, even more than Facebook. Both those platforms
are more about serving ads than serving information.
And I have ethical objections to Facebook’s content standards and
practices, so I also hope we don’t go to Facebook.
I am on a different list (Copyediting-L) which recently migrated to
*Groups.......io* — another of the platforms recommended by Yahoo.
That list remains purely about the subject content, as we have been
accustomed to on C-Talk at Yahoo all these years.
I have no experience with Google Groups, but I have found several other
Google services to be purely about content — aside from bringing you into
the Google ecosystem, where the commercial hook is not directly based on
advertising.
Special thanks to those who are contemplating the work of migrating and
managing for the future!
Regards,
Mishra Suloway
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
S Mishra Suloway
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
On Oct 24, 2020, at 3:29, Tommy Waikiki tommyvacation@xxxxxxxxx[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
from Yahoo groups to Nextdoor (as suggested by Yahoo groups.)
Hi Chris,
I'd like to ask for your consent for me to move Constellation Talk
someone else to take over.
I am touched by your earnest decision to let go and by welcoming
anything in return.
I take it as a selfless act of gifting: giving without asking
part, I take it with my own implied obligation
In return, without any future obligation or responsibility of your
to continue it as it is.developed and improved over the years will
ConstellationTalk is on Nextdoor but the rules which you have
stay the same as they are.as needed) to complete the task.
We now have 2 more members join me, Daniel G. and Anni M. (and more
a little better.
We are duly following the Spiritual Family Constellation tradition;
You are first, we are second.
Constellation Talk will continue to make you proud.
We ask you to smile kindly upon us as we carry on and in due time be
Warm Regards,
Tommy Tran
My task is to reduce entropy,
do away with fear
to become love.
--
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425
www.mindfulness.org.au
